Another 10-20 hand...

[CJC]

Hello,

An absolutely insanely loose 10-20 game at the Woods. Horrible players.. Horrible.. One Old dude has dropped over 2 grand in the 5 hours I have sat at the table..( a truly endless supply of Ben Franklins [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) Table wasn't particularly aggressive except for this hand.. I was the tightest player at the table and it was noticed by most of the players.. ( not that they adjusted their play for it )

I am forced low with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])
I bring it in for $3
10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] completes to $10
Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] makes it $20
A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] makes it $30
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] cold calls.

Action back to me.. I cap it at $40.

don't remember the other cards that folded this time but my hand was %100 live.. ( the ace of spades was the only spade on board too )

As expected everyone called the capped betting..

What do ya think?

CJ

[Andy B]

I wouldn't be surprised to see some people advocate a fold here. I call myself. What exactly do you hope to accomplish by raising? Are you trying to knock people out? Good luck with that, and you want people in anyway, I think. Are you trying to tie people on? Everybody's already tied on. Well, if I'm the guy who raised coming in with split Tens, I'm getting the hell out of there, but everyone else likely to hang around for a while. Are you trying to deceive your opponents? These are terrible players; deception is not necessary. I like this hand, and I don't mind playing a big pot with it, but by capping, you make the pot so big that you may find yourself calling on fifth street with a hand you wish you didn't have to.

[CJC]

Hey Andy..



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I wouldn't be surprised to see some people advocate a fold here

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Me neither...

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I call myself

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There was no way in hell I was going anywhere either..

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Are you trying to knock people out? Good luck with that

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Raising to knock people out would have been futile.. That wasn't the reason..


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Well, if I'm the guy who raised coming in with split Tens, I'm getting the hell out of there

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I should have mentioned in the original post. Mr I drop Two Thousand in a ten-twenty game was the Mr I raise with a ten. I KNEW he wasn't going anywhere. As a matter of fact.. I KNEW everyone was calling...

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I like this hand, and I don't mind playing a big pot with it, but by capping, you make the pot so big that you may find yourself calling on fifth street with a hand you wish you didn't have to.

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I agree with you for the mostpart.. Do you really think there is that much difference in pot size between 3 or 4 bets though( especially when its getting bet on 4th ).. I have a basic philosophy!! If I have a hand thats worth 3 bets in a big pot.. then its worth a cap.. especially for the reasons I did it, which I will get into in a later post. It is important to note that if I were playing in a FIVE bet casino, then I WOULD NOT have capped it..

Thanks Andy for the response.

Later,

CJ

[studplaya]

yeah I liked the play also CJ because as you said the game is so damn LOOSE! normally not something one would do with a small straight flush draw and opponents that have a clue, but my thinking would be along the lines of hey the pots already big and no one is going anywhere and I have only one of my suit out none of my other connecters out with a hand that stands odds wise to be sitting very nicely more often than not on 4th street so why not build as big of a pot early as possible for those times when I'm golden before the bet size doubles when my customers sure as hell aren't going away; well done I say, and being from what it sounds like the best player in the game or at least close to it, you are going to be able to get away from it without too much damage those times when it's necessary..

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Andy..




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I call myself

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There was no way in hell I was going anywhere either..


CJ

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i believe andy was saying he would call rather than raise

[CJC]

I understood that..

[Andy B]

If I had known that Sitting Bull was back in town, I could have made a definitive prediction that someone would advocate a fold....

I actually did run some things on twodimes myself, and if you give everyone else a big pair, you have a significant edge. This diminishes when other players have big three-flushes. Unfortunately, you're going to run into a reverse-implied odds situation a significant percentage of the time. There are a lot of blanks you can catch on fourth street, and you're going to have to call a bet, maybe two, unless your hand falls so dead that you can't continue. Same deal with fifth street. I like this hand a lot on fourth street, but I often find myself hating it on fifth. You should have ample opportunity to raise on later streets if you still like your hand.

I posted a high-low hand a couple of years ago in which I had the very same starting hand. I wound up capping it five ways for five bets with a guy who turned out to have rolled-up Eights. The concensus then was that I shouldn't have capped it.

[Minnow]

When you say they were horrible players are you implying that you werent confident you could put either the Q or the A on a set. Maybe the A less likely since another one was out. But if you had just called the third bet and the Q re-raised wouldnt that tell you he definitely had a set? At the 3-6 level I'm currently playing at, even as loose as they are, I'm learning that a 4th bet means very likely a set. If the Q does make it 4 you might as well fold???

[CJC]

Hello,

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When you say they were horrible players are you implying that you werent confident you could put either the Q or the A on a set

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Why should I automatically put eitehr the Ace or the Queen on a rolled hand? Because a Q re-raises a 10 its an auto rolled hand? And because an A re-raises both( especially with 1 out ) I should put him on a rolled hand?

Hey, if I run into a rolled hand.. then so be it.. Thats poker..Remember I am the one who 4 bet it.

Just because there are a few bets and raises in front of you DOESN'T mean there is a rolled hand out there!! Now if something like a Jack capped after the Queen and 10 and Ace.. Then I would be concerned..

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If the Q does make it 4 you might as well fold???


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Even if I just called.. then the queen made it 4 bets.. There was no way in hell I was folding.. Do you always fold for one more bet when there is apprx 20 bets in the pot?

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At the 3-6 level I'm currently playing at, even as loose as they are, I'm learning that a 4th bet means very likely a set

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What a 4 bet means in a $3-6 is usually very different than what it means at the stakes I play at..and when I have played $3-6 games.. I have seen betting capped with jacko-crap.. on many more than one occassions...

CJ

[rtrombone]

Personally I don't like three to a straight-flush because the few times I've been dealt it I've caught complete bricks on 4th and 5th, but you can't deny the strength of the hand. Here's just one simulation in which it has the highest EV:

pokenum -mc 500000 -7s tc td 9d - qh qc kh - ac 2c 3c - as ah jd - 5s 6s 7s
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Tc Td 9d 92660 18.53 407277 81.46 63 0.01 0.185
Qc Kh Qh 100554 20.11 399424 79.88 22 0.00 0.201
Ac 3c 2c 91443 18.29 408519 81.70 38 0.01 0.183
As Jd Ah 84280 16.86 415684 83.14 36 0.01 0.169
7s 6s 5s 130959 26.19 368992 73.80 49 0.01 0.262

Even if the guy with the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] has two more spades to go with it you have the most pot equity. And if one of your opponents is rolled your hand is still +EV 5-handed, assuming your cards are indeed live.

Sure, you have garbage if you brick out on 4th and 5th. On 3rd, though, it's a veritable monster and should be played accordingly.