Do I just need to accept I am not very good?

[rob7278]

I am looking for some insight from others who have hopefully been in a similiar situation. I have read most of the recommended books on playing HE(TOP,HEFAP,THEFAP,SS and several others that have not been mentioned on this forum but pertain to Hold Em). I grasp, at least I feel like I do, most of the concepts and strategies for playing solid HE. In multi table tournaments and SNG's I would honestly say I am probably up slightly or even overall. However my problem lies in the ring games; I have been donating thousands of dollars at the ring game tables. I lose, go back to the books to reread, go to poker tracker to analyze my hands, come to this forum to read posts, deposit more money, then lose,lose,lose. I move down from $0.50-1 tables to $0.10-0.50 tables, to $0.02-0.04- lose,lose,lose. The continous analysis has helped me to advance farther into the money in the multi tournies(even made a few final tables), also helped increase my percentage of time finishing in the money at the SNG's. But at the ring games- lose,lose,lose. I do realize that ring games and tournaments have different strategies, however I cannot figure out what I am doing that is so dramatically flawed in ring games that I can't even hold my own against the lowest level players; yet I can work my through good players in tournaments. I dont play rags, I don't chase(unless pot odds warrant), I don't feel I overplay. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
This post is not intended as a pity party, I am hoping to get some insight or advice that will hopefully help me turn the corner. I mostly play No Limit, however I have played limit tables with the same results.

[joker122]

post some hands.

[Blanton13]

Like at least two or three others have said...Post the hands. That'll help some.

From my position I've learned and feel that micro limits are best used to sharpen your potodd calculations and odds in getting the card you need. If it's going to cost some Ya-Hooo 4 pennies to see the next card, you get a lot of "Heck...why not....it's only a nickle..." So judgeing your play based on that is suspect.

I'm very new to the game as well. And I know there's a difference between limit and no limit and ring vs. tourny. I know there is, I know there is, I know it....but very rarely has it changed my style of play. Across the board I play very tight with just a smidge of agression in there. But as I've played more and more, I've seen a greater seperation between the two.

The key for me was figuring out what my personal style preference was. Once I was able to get a grasp on that, making adjustments was a bit easier.

[t_petrosian]

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that you are playing looser than you should. Perhaps tightening up significantly, playing Sklansky groups 1 and 2, and adding 3 from late position will put you in a situation where you're atleast not losing too much money. You may in fact actually make some money here. The point is, learn to play these hands really well (raising and folding, rarely calling), then as you get these hands under your belt, add a few more hands. There are probably 100 ways to go about this, but I think this is a nice, conservative approach that will keep your bankroll mostly intact. I also agree with what many people have said here, play limit instead of nl for a while. Add nl later after you're a proven limit player.

[rob7278]

Thanks for all the great advice. I was somewhat gun shy to post, as frequently I see people get roasted for posts like this. I will definitely start playing limit and hopefully I will be able to start taking money out, rather than being an ATM for everyone else. Ideally I would like to find a poker coach if there is such a thing.

[Joe826]

I appreciate posts like yours most of all since they are so honest. Don't think for one second you're the only one losing on these boards. The fact that you posted asking for help and accepting the fact that you may not be playing well puts you a step ahead of alot of other struggling players. I'm still learning as well, but if you PM me i'll take a look at some hands or watch you play and let you know what I think (I play limit, mostly 3/6).

[turnipmonster]

if you want to learn to play NL, then read the PL/NL forums and post hands where you lose your stack. also, you probably play way too loose. as an exercise, try never calling a raise preflop. ever. either reraise, or fold. see what that does for your game.

tournaments have little or nothing to do with most big bet cash games, particularly when the stacks are deeper. most tournament players are total ring game fish.

--turnipmonster

[illunious]

From the information you provided, there's no way of identifying what you might be doing wrong.

Do you know a winning NL ring game player that would be willing to review a couple hundred hands for you, or kibitz you while you're playing? This may be the best way to figure out what you're doing wrong.

[rob7278]

I do not know a winning ring game player that would be willing to review hands; but anyone that is willing- please let me know. I thoroughly enjoy poker and, for the time being, would be happy if I could just self-sustain without depositing money everyday. Basically everything I win in tournaments and SNG's(and then some; who am I kidding- much more) is given away at the ring games.

[HoldemOrFoldem]

Okay... this is a general reply based on what I have read...

When people say that tournament play is different from ring game play, I don't think they emphasise how different the two really are. In fact the gameplay between the two are so different that many top professional tournament poker players get completely destroyed when they enter ring games. So don't feel that you are way behind simply because you are running bad in ring games right now...

My advice to you is to focus on one particular type of game and learn it, then move onto the next one. So if you want to focus on improving your NL tournament results, simply focus on playing that until you have it clocked. If you want to focus on improving your NL ring game results then focus all of your game playing on that.

If you try to learn them all, all at once, you will end up taking twice as long... take your time, post up some hands, and keep on playing!