Gaza Baby Killers

[B-Man]

I don't know how anyone can defend/support these people. This kind of action truly shocks the conscience. I'm sure Cyrus, Alger and Nicky will start mentioning assasinations and the like by Israel, but in no way is anything Israel has done comparable to the cold-blooded murders of children. Israel targets terrorists (and sometimes causes collateral damage), but would never intentionally, specifically murder babies like happened in this incident.

This is truly horrific.
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May 3, 2004 -- JERUSALEM - Palestinian fiends mercilessly gunned down a pregnant Jewish settler and her four terrified little girls in their station wagon yesterday as the family headed to protest Israel's planned Gaza Strip pullout.
After riddling the car with gunfire on a road leading to Israel, the two terrorists then ran up to the vehicle and coldbloodedly pumped bullets into each of their victims' heads to make sure they had finished the job, Israeli police said.

One of the gunmen also shot the swollen belly of the eight-months-pregnant mom at point-blank range.

"At first, we thought we could do something to save the mother, but it was too late," one distraught Israeli settler said.

"The children were already dead, with bullets in the head. Little children. I don't know, I really don't know," the man said.

Killed were Tali Hatuel, 34, and her four daughters: Meirav, 2, Roni, 7, Hadar, 9, and Hila, 11.

Rescuers found the dead baby still strapped in her car seat, just above a blood-soaked children's book that had fallen on the floor.



The brutal attack occurred at around 1 p.m., as Hatuel, a social worker who counseled the relatives of terror victims, was driving her daughters from their settlement of Gush Katif to hand out fliers at a nearby protest over the planned dismantlement of their settlement and about 20 others.

A bumper sticker on their car defiantly read, "From here, we will not move."

Hours later, Likud Party voters overwhelmingly rejected a nonbinding referendum on the plan, largely because of emotional backlash stemming from the five murders.

Israeli TV reported that a CNN crew traveling in a van on the same road as the woman and her daughters had spotted the ambush being set up moments earlier and tried to alert the family. But the mom didn't understand what the crew was trying to say before it was too late.

The two gunmen were shot dead by Israeli soldiers as they fled the scene.

Several Palestinian militant groups, including the Islamic Jihad, claimed responsibility.

David Hatuel, a teacher, wept uncontrollably over the bodies of his wife and children at their funerals as he begged them to forgive him for spending so much time away from home to lobby against the pullout.

"On Friday, [the girls] drew me a picture and wrote, 'Daddy, we are proud of what you are doing for the home where we were born,' " he told the crowd of thousands of mourners.

"You were my flowers, and I will not forget you," he sobbed.

Several hours after the attack, Israel launched missiles at a Gaza City building that housed Palestinian-run radio stations and two main newspapers. At least two people were wounded. Israel also launched a missile strike on a car in Nablus, killing four militants.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

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I don't know how anyone can defend/support these people.

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I think you're totally taking this out of context. Is it a terrible travesty? Of course. But I hope you're not suggesting that all Palestinians behave this way, because they obviously do not.

On a side note, you mentioned that Isreal would not do anything this horrendous. However, you must remember that in this whole situation that Isreal has been the aggressor and oppressor and that the Palestinians (justified or not) are retaliating to their injustice. There is also of course a media bias in this Isreal/Palestine situation. The U.S. historically have been pro-Isreal and we always seem to hear in detail of the horrifying acts of Palestian terrorists, but not of the riot control tactics of Isreal, who have gunned down Palestian protestors on numerous occassions. Yes, we hear of them, but for some reason, it does not seem as shocking.

I'm not in any way supporting acts of terrorism by the Palestinians or acts of oppression by Isreal, but before you start to point fingers at who's more wrong or who's more terrible in this conflict, just remember that both sides are victims and hope that peace is resolved.

[Gamblor]

The "oppression" of the Palestinian people is a propaganda tactic used by a totalitarian dictatorship (the PA) as media spin.

The "oppression" amounts to anti-terrorism measures such as arrests/public trials for incitement/violence/conspiracy to murder, demolition of terrorist infrastructure i.e. munitions depotss/factories, and defensive measures such as checkpoints to examine Palestinian vehicles entering Israel and security fences.

The settler issue, amounts to Jews returning to lands they relenquished in the 1948 war when the UN mandated them out of cities like Hevron and Sh'chem (now Nablus). Upon their return, they were met with further violence and indeed lands were appropriated - by the only sovereign state that claimed them (Israel) - in order to defend against the frequent attacks from terrorists that began long before 1967 as well as potential attacks from the neighbouring Arab states that so frequently declared war on the State.

It is indeed individual Palestinian Arabs that commit these crimes and by no means should all Arabs be persecuted because of the actions of others.

Yet, it is the systematic encouragement of terrorism by the Palestinians in power (be they Hamas or the PA), as well as the vulnerability of the Jews in Israel that prevents the formation of a legitimate Palestinian state.

No Palestinian terrorists come from small towns. Most small-town Palestinians get along with Israelis from nearby towns, even settlers! They share commerce and visit and trade with each other. This is because most small town Palestinians, without TVs, are untainted by the relentless stream of propaganda urging them to destroy Jews/Zionists, as Palestinians in cities like Kalkilya, Tulkarm, Beit Lechem, Nablus, Jenin, Gaza, Rafach, and other Terrorist factories are, and that is why there is still a conflict. The PA simply does not control anything outside the reach of its armed thugs, and as such can not operate as a government. It's a matter of finding a government who will guarantee the safety of Israelis and quell the blind unadulterated hatred - not of Israeli policy, but of Jews.

Who else is there?

The Hamas?

[ACPlayer]

Out of curiousity I must ask:

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The PA simply does not control anything outside the reach of its armed thugs, and as such can not operate as a government.

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If the PA agreed to turn over all of its weapons, Arafat and his top henchmen go into exile somewhere, Hamas and its top henchmen also go into exile somewhere and the Palestinian agreed by referendum to be governed by the Israeli laws:

then a one-state solution with full Israeli citizenship rights to the Palestinians presently in Gaza and WB, with Israel's border upto the Jordan river be acceptable to a) youself b) the other fascists (i could not resist it [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) Sharon et al?

[Gamblor]

Yes.

If somehow there would be a guarantee that anti-semitism among Arab nations would be eradicated forever.

[elwoodblues]

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Yes.

If somehow there would be a guarantee that anti-semitism among Arab nations would be eradicated forever.

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So, in other words, No.

[MMMMMM]

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The U.S. historically have been pro-Isreal and we always seem to hear in detail of the horrifying acts of Palestian terrorists, but not of the riot control tactics of Isreal, who have gunned down Palestian protestors on numerous occassions. Yes, we hear of them, but for some reason, it does not seem as shocking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it's NOT as shocking as armed men running up to small children in a car and putting a bullet into each of their heads at point blank range. And that kind of atrocity happens only on the Palestinian side. Not all Palestinians are like that, of course, as you rightly point out, but apparently some Palestinians are less human than any Israeli. So mull that over.

[trippin bily]

no one is taking this out of context. how can you take murdering innocent woman and children out of context? they are not both victims. the palestinians want to kill all israelis and drive them into the sea. end of discussion. there is no debate.israel has offered numerous plans to give up all kinds of land. all met with murder of innocent woman and children...thanks to the palestinans...now with woman and children. israel is not going anywhere. stop killing their people and things will change. keep using woman and children to kill woman and children and the ONLY thing israel can do is kill those trying to kill them. stop apologizing for the murderers. if you want peace you cant keep killing israelis. hasnt worked yet has it?

[Chris Alger]

"israel has offered numerous plans to give up all kinds of land"

Really? When?

[Chris Alger]

The thing you have to understand about B-man is that he could care less about "baby-killers" per se, he only cares about killing children of the proper bloodstock. His essentially neo-Nazi outlook is that Israel can and should kill as many children as it can in order to terrorize Palestinians into accepting Israeli rule over the occupied territories. For example, if you go to the website of the Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories, you'll see that Israel has killed some seven times as many children as Palestinian terrorists, both since the beginning of the current intifada and since 1987. The multiple is undoubtedly higher if we go back to 1947 or even 1895, especially given the Zionist terror campaigns and ethnic cleansing of 1936-1949 and the indiscriminate shelling of defenseless refugees in Lebanon during the 1980's, when Sharon massacred thousands of civilians, Sabra and Shatila amounting to a small portion of such murders.

This has been pointed out to B-Man in detail many times before but you won't find a peep of protest or concern from him about these atrocities. To him, the slaughter of Palestinian children is not only tolerable but something we should support by supplying Israel with the arms necessary to continue it.

As for Gamblor, whose pathological lying about virtually continues unabated, he's actually admitted to supporting terrorism (specifically, planting bombs in marketplaces), including murdering children, provided that the victims are Arabs.