Preflop drawing dead problem....

[SossMan]

At a ten handed table, is it possible to find a combination of nine hands that would leave the person w/ the 10th hand exactly 0 outs preflop (hot and cold, no betting)?
In other words, is it possible to be drawing dead preflop, given a certain combo of opponents hands?

[AJo Go All In]

yes.

just messing around on twodimes i came up with this:

2c 2d
2s 2h
5c 5d
5s 5h
As Ad
Ac Ah
6d 7h
8s 9c
Ts Jc
Qc Kh

In this scenario both 22s have exactly 0 equity

[bigpooch]

Not quite zero, but very close!

Suppose the board shows up with

Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

then everyone plays the board.

But you may be right that there could be very easily some
combination for which the 22 has EXACTLY zero equity.

[AJo Go All In]

sorry, that should be Qd Kh

[bigpooch]

Quite easily! There are a plethora of examples. Suppose
the tenth hand is 22 and there is another player holding
22 and two other players holding 33. Now the best the 22
can hope for is to play the board with everyone else!

[SossMan]

Ok...what is the least # of hands to make a given hand dead?

[bigpooch]

Suppose a player has 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. For this player
to have absolutely zero equity, he cannot play the board
with all the other players doing likewise. Thus, the board
cannot be allowed to have any straight flush possibilities.

Clearly, some other player must have 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

If the other hands are as below, no straights are possible
and therefore no straight flushes.

7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Thus, with a total of five other hands, it is possible for
22 to be drawing dead.

Here's an easy question to answer! What hands in holdem
require the least number of other hands competing to have
exactly zero equity? You should be able to immediately
determine which hands they are and what the least number
of hands will be.

[bigpooch]

Actually, should have 55, 55, TT, TT as other hands.

[Bozeman]

You made the same mistake, all aces need to be out or else A4444 is a chop, for example.

[illunious]

This thread showed how KK could be drawing dead vs. 6 other hands.