Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Limit Texas Hold'em > Mid- and High-Stakes Hold'em
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-08-2004, 06:57 PM
Coilean Coilean is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 384
Default Raised on the river.. again

Hand 1. 80-160, pretty standard toughish game with a couple soft spots, currently 5 handed with no soft spots due to walkers. I raise K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG, UTG+1 (seems a tightish, honest type) 3-bets, we see the flop heads up.

A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]: I check raise, he calls.

5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]: I bet, he raises, I 3-bet, he calls.

A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]: I bet, he raises. Call, reraise, or fold?


Hand 2. Same game, but now full. 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the SB. EP limper, straightforward seeming tight/agressive MP raiser, loosie cold calls, I call, BB folds, EP calls, 4 to the flop.

Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]: MP bets, loosie raises, I call, MP calls, 3 to the turn.

7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]: I bet, MP calls, loosie folds, heads up.

Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]: I bet, MP raises. Call, reraise, or fold?


Hand 3. Same game, new table: on the tight side excepting 2 spots (one of whom is currently sitting out). I raise 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG, EP (hasn't played many hands, so no real read besides tight) cold calls, both blinds call, 4 to the flop.

A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]: Checked to me, I bet, EP calls, SB folds, BB calls.

6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]: I bet, both call.

J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]: I bet, EP raises, BB folds. Call, reraise, or fold?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-08-2004, 07:27 PM
Kenshin Kenshin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hyde Park via Beverly Hills
Posts: 195
Default Re: Raised on the river.. again

I consider 80-160 well beyond my comfort level; however, my unfamiliarity with the stakes will not prevent me from commenting
Hand 1: I would making a crying call and expect to be shown QQ.

Hand 2: reraise. He might have caught trips on the river or flopped a poorly played straight.

Hand 3: call. If my opponent chases a 25 to 1 shot against me, I am more than willing to occasionally pay him off.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-08-2004, 07:36 PM
GuyOnTilt GuyOnTilt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,405
Default Re: Raised on the river.. again

Hand 1:

I'd like to say I could lay this one down, but I'd call on the river here. There's no way you should be reraising here if your opponent is as honest as you say.

Hand 2:

MP would've most likely reraised the flop with 2 pair or a set since you describe him as t/a. I think you can safely 3-bet the river here. If he 4-bets, I'd call and not feel too bad if he showed me a winner.

Hand 3:

I would not reraise here, since I'd have to fold to a 4-bet. I'd just call and expect to see something like ATs or A9s about half the time. Again, if I missed a bet and the pot gets pushed my way, no regrets.

GoT
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-08-2004, 07:39 PM
DanZ DanZ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 339
Default hand #1 - check and call the river n/m

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-08-2004, 08:48 PM
gaylord focker gaylord focker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 292
Default Re: hand #1 - check and call the river n/m

I would call the first two hands, and probably be a little more optimistic about the second. I think you are beat in third hand for sure, and I would lay this down agaist the right kind of player. I can't think of anything you can beat.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-09-2004, 06:25 PM
Coilean Coilean is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 384
Default Re: hand #1 - check and call the river n/m

Umm, AJs QJs or a (poorly) slowplayed AQ? Axs T9s are about the only hands I lose to (and he may not play a fair number of those preflop against a uncalled raiser) with ATs being the most likely, as the play just doesn't fit AA/QQ.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-09-2004, 06:20 PM
Coilean Coilean is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 384
Default Re: hand #1 - check and call the river n/m

Given he can have AK (or even AJ, it is a shorthanded game right now) more easily than AQ here, and his play didn't seem much like a set to me, I can't see letting him check behind here. He surely came to the conclusion that AK/AJ was in poor shape on the turn, and if he's at all decent that river ace won't change his mind, so I don't think he's going to bet a loser for me, if that's what you're hoping.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-08-2004, 10:35 PM
theriverwild theriverwild is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 76
Default Re: Raised on the river.. again

hand 1 actually i give a crying call when he raises if he's typical and tight this is because of the narrow range of hands he'd 3 bet u with preflop, raise your turn bet after a three bet and then raise the river. I might actually check this river if he's that tight. the only hand u have a change against is ak but it seems unlikely.

Hand two you should me almost definately beat at this point. You've represented a flush by calling 2 cold and then betting when the flush hits. When you follow it up on the turn and r raised you would have to be up against a full house or possibly the nut flush.

Hand three has your best chances of winning in my oppinion. since there has been no raising it's quite possible someone made their 2 pair while u r still ahead. A 3 bet wouldn't be a bad idea.

The thing about all these situations is they are all player dependent. I might 3 bet one player and check crying call with another.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-08-2004, 10:47 PM
theriverwild theriverwild is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 76
Default Re: Raised on the river.. again

just an observation about hand 3 a hand like aj would be a likely sight if he's limping from early position which would give him 2 pair
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-08-2004, 10:40 PM
elysium elysium is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,891
Default Re: Raised on the river.. again

hi coil
what? hand 1) you're beat. call the river. by the way that was a terrible raise from UTG. having done that, however, now you must bet out on the flop. don't check-raise unless you've been betting out a lot with the goods coil, and even then, whew....check-raising won't give you the more smooth action that you'd like going into the turn. you bet the flop, he raises, you call the flop. then, because the board is coordinated, you check-raise the turn to get the fold. you are trying to avoid a 1 in 12 here. in this case, that was unavoidable. but you make him pay the full price to 4 to 1 you.

now look coil. do you see how he smooth called you on the flop? he is setting you up for the turn, and he was not ruffled by your check-raise. but now look at the turn. if you check-raise him, he will 3 bet. this is important because you should have anticipated having the nuts on the turn and set up for the check-raise by smooth calling his flop raise after betting into him on the flop. you played it like top two pair.

on the river coil, you must give your opponent credit for having something. you should have just check-called.

hand 2) coil, the call of the MP raise pre-flop is horrible. i don't know what went on after that because it doesn't matter. you need to stop trying to learn at the table. that will only lead to disaster. you'll panic and compound the problem. and do not play on the internet. you need to do some research. you can answer posts here and learn while answering. but this game is so complex that getting it even close to right in easy situations is very difficult. you're playing at about an average level. that's just good enough to lose every single time. you need to put in more study time. you need to step back, reevaluate how difficult some of the ins and outs of this game are, study everything top to bottom as you think for the first time ever about the various situations that occur in this game and how to approach them. it's an addictive game coil. you need to study and have a game plan so that you can feed your habit without getting devoured by it.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.