Ethics of Intentionally Putting People on Tilt

The Dude · #1 01-30-2004, 07:56 AM

I'm sure I'll get some heat from quite a few for being a softie, but all comments appreciated.

While we have all benefitted from someone at our table being on tilt, where do you guys draw the line between the desire for profit, and the desire to be "a good neighbor." I have won countless pots from people steaming, and I make no apologies for that. But to me it is a whole 'nother ball game when it comes to doing things that encourage someone to go/stay on tilt.

I have no reservations profiting from someone on tilt, but the idealist in me would like to see poker become so clean that everybody plays in a healthy, stable manner. That means no gambling addicts and nobody on tilt.

Comments?

GuyOnTilt · #2 01-30-2004, 09:25 AM

Comments?

Dude, you're up way too early. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

GoT

The Dude · #3 01-30-2004, 10:04 AM

Up early? No, no, no. I'm up LATE. I'm about to hit the sack now! Get a good night's rest, then head to the office, if you know what I mean. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

GuyOnTilt · #4 01-30-2004, 07:14 PM

Up early? No, no, no. I'm up LATE.

Same here. I hit the sack a couple minutes after posting. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

then head to the office, if you know what I mean.

Dude, what? No invite?

GoT

LetsRock · #5 01-30-2004, 10:18 AM

Personally, I don't care for the tactic of forcing someone into tilt. Once in a while, I'll play with a real meathead that is a total obnoxiuos PITA who I will encourage to get steamed, but in general, I'll try to be the "good neighbor".

Al Schoonmaker · #6 01-30-2004, 10:31 AM

In about two weeks cardplayer.com and cardrooms will have "Part II: Creating It," in my four part series on tilt. "Part I, Avoiding It," is currently available at both places. Since I don't want to compete with my own column, I won't take a position here. I'll just say that the first section is titled, "The Ethical Issue: How far can you go?"
I will be very interested in reactions to my position.
Regards,
Al

The Dude · #7 01-30-2004, 08:48 PM

Al,

Your response is one in particular I was looking for, but I respect your reasons for not posting quite yet. I eagerly await your article.

Others I am interested in hearing responses from: John Feeney, Mason Malmuth, David Sklansky, Ed Miller, Ray Zee. (I know, a bit of wishful thinking, but I'd like to hear thoughts from those who are shaping the industry.)

Ed Miller · #8 02-03-2004, 01:36 AM

I'm certainly no authority on this issue...

I don't try to put people on tilt for the sake of putting them on tilt. Occasionally I have been known to egg on a steamer who is being whiny/abusive to others. I have little tolerance for people who are abusive to others at the table... especially to live ones or inexperienced players.

If someone is doing that, I might say something if I think it will humiliate him or push him over the edge a bit.

The Dude · #9 02-03-2004, 03:15 AM

Ed,

The basis for my question is this: I believe firmly that the poker industry will benefit TREMENDOUSLY from its ability to remove itself from problem gambling behavior.

Statistically, poker is much less likely than other forms of gambling to cause/attract addictive or problematic behavior. Even so, those interested in promoting the industry should do everything they can to reduce the connection between poker and problem behavior... and that means keeping people off tilt.

Am I wrong here?

Dov · #10 02-04-2004, 02:35 AM

I think you are.

Take this common scenario...

A 20-40 player is playing 10-20 while waiting for a seat in his regular game. He is raising almost every hand on every street because he knows that the other players at the table aren't comfortable playing at that level. He is essentially putting them on tilt. (one form anyway)

I agree that there shouldn't be bad behavior at the table. The difference is that people play this sport with their own money, and that same money is used to keep score. Many people are emotionally attached to money and if that attachment is too great, then they shouldn't play.

But who is to say when enough is enough? Do you really want some floorperson to come over and tell you that you're done for the night because you're tilting? How does he know? It's your money! Right?

The nature of the game makes it very difficult to implement what you are discussing in the middle of the game. Someone with tilt issues should address them outside of the game or expect to lose.