AJo, KJo, KQo, and JQo, the 4 biggest money wasters at micro

[me454555]

I see more posts about these hands than any others on the forum. Just today there was a post about QTo that made no sense. So in regards to that, I feel I should add my 2 cents to the discussion.

These hands are hard to play b/c they are weak hands that look strong and when they hit the flop, they can leave you with some very tough decisions.

1) These hands play well against fewer opponents so they should only be play from late position after 1 limper max.

2) These hands should be raised pf if your going to play them b/c it not only gives you the illusion of strenth, but also gives you a chance to eliminate the blinds and get to the flop with fewer opponents.

Rule of thumb: If you don't feel comfortable raising a hand like this pf w/the position you have, you probobly shouldn't be playing it.

At the micro limits, it is even more important that you play these hands aggressive pf to limit the field b/c your opponets will sometimes play anything if you don't. When you hit the flop and get top pair good kicker against 3 or 4 oppoents, you have a much greater chance of getting outdrawn on the river than if it were HU.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings about these hands. Please feel free to comment away.

[rkiray]

What you said is true for KTo and QTo. The hands you list are all stonger. In particular AJo and KQo are much stronger.

[me454555]

not really, they need help from the flop to win and aside from AJ they are all vulnerable to overcards when they flop a pair. KTo and QTo shouldn't be played period unless your trying to steal a blind

[csuf_gambler]

this is why u play AJ


Hand #769181-10809 at Atlanta ($.50/$1 Hold'em Kill)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 02/Jan/04 20:25:50

MikeG_Wa is at seat 0 with $19.75.
bankheadduo is at seat 1 with $19.20.
talia is at seat 2 with $61.25.
marcus2121 is at seat 3 with $40.
Studdam is at seat 4 with $90.30.
mirko_crocop is at seat 5 with $49.50.
immanuel is at seat 6 with $14.55.
Marty Ward is at seat 7 with $14.65.
1BossHog is at seat 8 with $46.50.
Brooke7399 is at seat 9 with $36.50.
The button is at seat 8.
The full kill button is at seat 1.
*** This is a kill game. ***

Brooke7399 posts the small blind of $.25.
MikeG_Wa posts the big blind of $.50.
bankheadduo posts the kill blind of $1.

MikeG_Wa: -- --
bankheadduo: -- --
talia: -- --
marcus2121: -- --
Studdam: -- --
mirko_crocop: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
immanuel: -- --
Marty Ward: -- --
1BossHog: -- --
Brooke7399: -- --

Pre-flop:

bankheadduo checks. talia folds. marcus2121 folds.
Studdam folds. mirko_crocop calls. immanuel folds.
Marty Ward folds. 1BossHog folds. Brooke7399
raises to $2. MikeG_Wa folds. bankheadduo calls.
mirko_crocop calls.

Flop (board: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]):

Brooke7399 bets $1. bankheadduo calls. mirko_crocop
calls.

Turn (board: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]):

Brooke7399 checks. bankheadduo checks. mirko_crocop
bets $2. Brooke7399 raises to $4. bankheadduo
folds. mirko_crocop re-raises to $6. Brooke7399
re-raises to $8. mirko_crocop calls.

River (board: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]):

Brooke7399 bets $2. mirko_crocop raises to $4.
Brooke7399 calls.



Showdown:

mirko_crocop shows J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
mirko_crocop has J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]: full house, aces full of jacks.
Brooke7399 mucks cards.
(Brooke7399 has A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].)


Hand #769181-10809 Summary:

$1 is raked from a pot of $33.50.
mirko_crocop wins $32.50 with full house, aces full of jacks.

[Danenania]

Haha, good joke Csuf_gambler. I hope it's a joke. AJ versus AK is a recipe for distaster most of the time. Plus yours was suited which is quite different.

[umdpoker]

yeah man. this is also the reason people call raises with a3o. "but what if ace and three hit flop? then those evil ak holders will pay me off!" lol.

[me454555]

1) that was AJs not AJo
2) My point was that AJo is still a good hand but it has to be played in the right situation.

[Nottom]

No, this is why you play AJo.

Party Poker 3/6 (10 handed)
Hero has Ad, Jh and is Button

Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero caps, SB calls

Flop(9 SB): 7c, Ac, 3s

SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls

Turn(6 1/2 BB): Qs

SB bets, Hero calls

River(8 1/2 BB): 2d

SB bets, Hero calls

SB has AT, HERO takes the pot.


It happens far more often that way then the other way around in most low-limit games.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
this is why u play AJ


[/ QUOTE ]

You had a dominated hand that got hit incredibly hard by the board. Whoo hoo. Hell, I'm sure players could show us hands where their 7-2 offs made boats and took down huge pots. But would you post them as examples of why you should play 7-2 off?

Correct play isn't determined by the results of the hand. Phill Helmuth once posted a hand where his significant other flopped the nut boat and was beaten by a runner runner royal flush. I don't remember the precisely, but he calculated the odds of her losing after the flop at over 900-1 against. She lost a ton of money on the hand, but it'd be hard to say that she played it incorrectly.

Now your suited A-J may have given you the proper equity to call the raise--but if you'd known you were up against A-K it would have been absolutely incorrect to call. Certainly a miracle board isn't a good example of why one should play a hand. Any 2 cards can win in hold em. We know that already. Heck I've seen 10-2 suited make quad 2's. I'm still not playing that hand....

--Zetack

[rkiray]

You are incrediably wrong. There is no comparison between AJo, KQo and KTo, QTo. I always play the first two for one bet. I agree the AJo is probably tied with JJ as the most discussed hand on these forums, with KQo not too far behind. But the issue with AJo and KQo is whether to limp or raise with them. I usually only raise with them first in during very tight games or in late position. Others play them more aggresively.

If you don't believe me check out HPFAP. AJo, KQo are group four. KJo, JQo are group 5. KTo, QTo are group 6. There is a large difference between each group.