3 hands

[johnd192]

I am wondering if I had the proper odds to play these hands. This is at a $2/4 table 9-10 handed. I would appreciate any comments on any of my actions in these hands. thanks in advance.
Hand 1
Im button with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Preflop:
UTG calls, fold, fold, 4th raises, I call, sb raises, bb calls, UTG calls, 4th calls, I call. (15sb)

Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]
sb bet, bb fold, utg folds, 4th raises, i raise, sb folds, 4th caps, i call. (9sb)

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
4th bets, I call (2bb)

River: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
4th bets, I raise, he calls (4bb)

He has Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I take the pot.
******************************
Hand 2
UTG with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Preflop:
I call, fold, 3rd calls, folds, 5th raise $4, fold, fold, fold, fold, I call (3bet?), 3rd calls. (7.5sb)

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I call, 3rd calls, 5th calls. (3sb)

Turn: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I call, 3rd folds, 5th calls. (2bb)

River: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
I call, 5th calls. (2bb)

He has A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I take the pot.
**************************
hand 3
Im the button with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Preflop:
UTG raises, 4 folds, 6th (he posted in) calls, fold, I call, sb folds, bb calls. (8.5sb)

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
bb checks, UTG bets, 6th calls, I call, bb calls. (4sb)

Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
bb checks, UTG bets, 6th calls, I call, bb calls. (4bb)

River: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
bb checks, UTG bets, 6th folds, I raise, bb folds, UTG raises 11.75(all-in), I call 3.75 (~6bb)

He has Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I take the pot.

[Lost Wages]

john192,

Hand 1:

Fold ATo to a legitimate raise even on the button. AJo and usually AQo should be mucked as well.

Hand 2:
Fine to limp with Axs if the game is loose and passive. Don't 3-bet. On the turn I would be inclined to check and call since both players called your flop bet.

Hand 3.
You call a UTG raise with A3s? Fold preflop. Then fold again on the flop, you have squat.

Lost Wages

[2planka]

Yeah, I agree. You lucked out on these hands. Probably should have mucked at least two of them (other than the button play, perhaps). Chasing can pay in the short term, but long term you'll see <font color="red"> </font>red

[johnd192]

I had been watching these guys play all kinds of stuff in any position such as jto, 89s, axo, so I guess I was placing axs in a higher position as well as the ato and waiting to see if my flop was good. I think the 3rd hand I got lucky with the runner runner flush but I thought it was worth it to see the turn card for the backdoor flush.
thanks for your comments.

[Homer]

I had been watching these guys play all kinds of stuff in any position such as jto, 89s, axo, so I guess I was placing axs in a higher position as well as the ato and waiting to see if my flop was good.

After watching crap get shown down hand after hand it becomes tempting to start coldcalling with junk like ATo and Axs. Resist that urge. There are very few players (perhaps none) with postflop skills good enough to turn a profit with these hands in these situations. Also, note that just because your opponents are playing crappy hands, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have loose raising standards.

-- Homer

[CMangano]

Before the flop you are getting 2:1 on your call and the odds of flopping a four flush are 8:1. To make this call correct you need 7 other people calling this raise. However, with implied odds you could probably be ok with 4 or 5 if you are sure they will pay you off when you make your hand. In the hand in question the bb also calls, so 3 other people are in with you.

You flop a backdoor flush draw. The odds of getting your two suited cards on the turn and river are 24:1. 2 people have put in one bet ahead of you, so you are now getting 10:1 on your call which isn't even close. But, those aren't the real odds since the turn will decide how much farther you go. So, let's look at the true odds you are getting.

* NOTE *
Sklansky outlines this exact situation in TOP on page 51 in his Effective Odds section if you have the book handy
* END NOTE *

Using Sklansky's odds (which aren't exact but are easy to use for math purposes), the odds are 1/5 of hitting a card of your suit on both the turn and river and you will hit both of your suit 1 in 25 times. Best case scenario for you is everyone staying in until the river and then all putting in 2 bets when you raise with the nuts (this will hardly ever be the case, however). So, that means the one time you win you will win the 6bb's in the pot now, plus 4bb's on the turn and 8bb's on the river for a total of 18bb's.

1 time you will win 18bb's.

20 times the turn will be an offsuit and you will fold losing 1.5bb's for a 30bb loss.

4 times you will hit your suit on the turn and miss the river losing 2.5bb's for a 10bb loss.

So, for every 25 hands that you play in this situation you will lose a total of 22bb's (17 - 30 - 10). And this is the BEST POSSIBLE SCENARIO! If you only get 2 or 3bb's on the river you lose even more.

If you have a copy of TOP check out the odds section. If you don't have a copy, it is well worth the read.

[Bob T.]

Hand 1 you should have folded preflop, after that you had the odds to continue.

Hand 2, is a questionable play in Early position, especially since you seem to be in an aggressive game, but after that, you had the correct odds to continue.

Hand 3, You should have folded preflop, and then you hit a airball on the flop, you probably should have folded on the flop also. On the turn, you have the correct odds to see the river.

[Homer]

Hand 1 - Very easy fold preflop. You are almost certainly dominated by UTG or the raiser.

Hand 2 - No way should you three-bet preflop. In fact, depending on the game texture, this may be an easy fold from UTG. Postflop, I am confused as to who is betting/calling.

Hand 3 - Fairly easy fold preflop. You'd like another coldcaller or two before you call. Fold on the flop.

-- Homer

[johnd192]

I guess I have axs as too high of a starting hand.
As to who is betting in the 2nd hand. I am in the UTG position and I bet into them each round.
thanks for the comments.

[DarkKnight]

Hand 1: ATo fold to 2 bets preflop
Hnad 2: call preflop is fine, I don't think i bet the turn
Hand 3: I fold preflop and again on the flop