15, straight out of HPFAP?, 3 way, for overcall

CanKid · #1 12-09-2005, 10:29 PM

I don't know Mp1, figured he had me smoked or was drawing to 3-5 outs. Player behind me is generally straight forward but far too loose against raises preflop. I thought it was likely I had him dominated vs. JT/QT after the flop action.

I didn't see a reason in raising the turn or the river. Agree/Disagree?

Thanks

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $15.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.83 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (10.83 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 13.83 BB

rbenuck4 · #2 12-10-2005, 12:34 AM

seems standard

CardSharpCook · #3 12-10-2005, 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
seems standard

[/ QUOTE ] Perhaps, but every single street is borderline +EV. PF can be a fold/call/raise, doesn't matter much in EV. Flop can be a fold/call/raise, though I think raise is best. Turn is a fold/call, and I think folding might actually be best. River is a call now that we got this far.

#4 12-10-2005, 02:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seems standard

[/ QUOTE ] Perhaps, but every single street is borderline +EV. PF can be a fold/call/raise, doesn't matter much in EV. Flop can be a fold/call/raise, though I think raise is best. Turn is a fold/call, and I think folding might actually be best. River is a call now that we got this far.

[/ QUOTE ]
On the turn since there was a player behind the hero, I felt the hero shouldve either raised with the intention of folding to a 3 bet, or fold. With no read on the villain, it is hard to say which line is better. I think with no read I would raise the turn, since most players go for the checkraise in this spot when they have a strong hand, plus raising puts the most pressure on the guy behind the hero which protects our hand the times it is good.
If I were heads up with the villain, with no read I would then just call down on the turn.

CardSharpCook · #5 12-10-2005, 02:26 AM

except that with a 4 card str8 on the board, he can't depend on you to bet JJ anymore. I like tossing here because you could easily be drawing dead to a split pot, player behind you could easily be raising, player in front has shown open-aggression on 2 streets, despite resistance. Also, this board is made for 2pair hands. Given your position, holding, and aggression of others, I toss the turn. Raising seems suicidal.

#6 12-10-2005, 04:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
except that with a 4 card str8 on the board, he can't depend on you to bet JJ anymore. I like tossing here because you could easily be drawing dead to a split pot, player behind you could easily be raising, player in front has shown open-aggression on 2 streets, despite resistance. Also, this board is made for 2pair hands. Given your position, holding, and aggression of others, I toss the turn. Raising seems suicidal.

[/ QUOTE ]
You may be right, Ive played with so many retarded people lately, that I just assume theres a good chance the hero is still ahead here. I still think that raising is better than calling becuz of the other guy in the hand. And raising is not really suicidal since the hero can easily fold to a 3 bet IMO. The call down strategy invest 2BB's but never protects the hero's hand, by raising the turn the hero can make the same 2BB investment and also protect his hand the times he's still ahead. With no read, I see nothing wrong with folding here, and I also see nothing wrong with raising, but I hate the call down strategy unless its heads up.