Crying call on river or muck it?

This is a hand of minethis past weekend in a 10-handed 6/12 game at the Borgata. I'm doing it from memory too, so I may not get all the preflop 100% accurate, but it will be close.

Hero is in BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop: UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO raises, Button cold calls 2 bets, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG, UTG+1 calls

Flop: (10.5 Small Bets) A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, CO 3-bets, Button folds, Hero caps, UTG folds, CO calls

I thought I would try to check raise to give flush draws poor drawing odds, but I realize that they were still getting at least 6-1 which leaves them in fine shape. Should I have waited until the turn to check raise?

Turn: (10.5 Big Bets) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, CO calls

River: (12.5 Big Bets) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero vomits in his mouth and....

I would think I am probably beaten, but would calling 1 more bet for a pot with 15.5 Big Bets in it be so horrible?

[sean c]

Bet that flop! River depends on villian but folding sets heads up is not something i would make a habit of.

[Smokey98]

Would you just call the flop bet until seeing the turn? A lot of people will semi-bluff bet with 4 to the flush. The scare card came on the turn so you've got to thing that you're beat here. If you raise and are reraised then fold.

[sean c]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you just call the flop bet until seeing the turn? A lot of people will semi-bluff bet with 4 to the flush. The scare card came on the turn so you've got to thing that you're beat here. If you raise and are reraised then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smokey i would have capped the flop given the chance. Folding this hand any time before the river would be a mistake.

[BWebb]

This is the second hand I've seen today where the player checkraised their monster in a large, multiway pot because of a flush draw on board. You will NEVER get a flushdraw to fold on the flop in a multiway pot and you can NEVER make it incorrect for them to call, even if you checkraise. So stop trying it. [/rant]

Call the river.

Thanks for the help guys! I called the river raise based off of a strange play he made earlier in the session. He check called all the way to the river and then check raised on the river with a missed draw. I was hoping he was on AK and hoping his 2 pair would hold up. I called and he turned over Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I tried to have no problems and I laughed it off (while my whole face was twitching), went for a walk upstairs, and chain-smoked 6 cigarettes while I cooled off.

[ErrantNight]

i don't think villain played it that terribly.

i agree with the preflop raise if he thinks he can buy the button.

he bet the flop and will thin the field and get a free card sometimes. he 3-bets for that free card (alright, that's bad), doesn't get it, has the easiest call ever in a monster pot, has an easier call on the turn, has an easy raise on the river.

[ErrantNight]

horrible advice.

you have a set on the flop. meaning you have outs against a flush draw. a flush draw that may not be out there. further, if you play it passive on the flop, and the preflop/flop aggressor keeps betting, someone may semi-bluff raise the turn, or flat out bluff raise such a scare card, and you end up having to put a bunch of bets in on the turn, not knowing where you stand, and being just as unsure on the river.

further, your sentence "the scare card came on the turn so you've got to think that you're beat" is the foremost example of weak-tight thinking i could ever think of and it has no place on this board. or in your mouth. or anywhere, really, except at the homes of all the fish you're supposed to be taking money from.

I'm pretty sure you're beat too, but I think the pot is too big to fold. I think I would just check-call the river.

[fyodor]

I think you have to fold to the river raise. My understanding of the rationale behind betting the 4 flush in the first place is to win one more bet the times he calls with 2 pair and to possibly get him to fold a smaller flush.

When he raises I put you at 20:1 at best in a live game unless he is super laggy. Your odds would be better online but probably still not enough.