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  #1  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:17 PM
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Default How do I play AK here?

I have just been looking through some of my hands I recently played & this one was one that bothered me how to play,
I don't have any reads on any of the oppponents, but on the flop I'm concerned about someone hitting two pair (KT) also I have come up against alot of players at this limit who have the "any two cards will do" pre-flop mentality so I'm not ruling out T3 or K3 either.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Hero ?

a) Do I cap to protect my hand?
b) cold-call to hope to build pot (hoping SB &amp; BB calls) then bet/raise UI turn
c) cold-call to hope to improve but call down 1 bet (folding 2 bets) to turn &amp; river (even if T hits on either street)

Any help will be appreciated
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:28 PM
MadMat MadMat is offline
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

Wow that flop action is pretty nasty, I think whatever you do here it's costing you 4 bets to continue, I can't see how this isn't going to be capped behind you if you call.

I really don't think your hand is any good here, and I don't generally like to put people on a set this early, but CO's 3 bet screams set at me!

I think you cap, and fold turn UI if it comes to you for more thn 1 bet. But I really am unsure of this one!

Mat
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:33 PM
tyler_cracker tyler_cracker is offline
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

a) Capping does not protect your hand. No one who was thinking about cold-calling 3 is going to fold to that 4th bet.

b) You don't want to build a pot; the pot is plenty big already and you have one pair.

c) I think calling down and folding the turn UI (or maybe calling if it's only 1 bet and the board doesn't get any scarier) is your best strategy. Position is about the only thing you have going for you right now, and it lets you see how crazy these guys get on the turn.
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:36 PM
tyler_cracker tyler_cracker is offline
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

[ QUOTE ]
I think you cap

[/ QUOTE ]

This sucks. Raising again doesn't protect our hand and almost certainly isn't for value. I'd rather just call and see which of those monkeys likes his hand enough to cap.

And i know you said you were unsure, so i'm not being a dick; i'm just seeking the truth along with you.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:38 PM
MadMat MadMat is offline
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you cap

[/ QUOTE ]

This sucks. Raising again doesn't protect our hand and almost certainly isn't for value. I'd rather just call and see which of those monkeys likes his hand enough to cap.

And i know you said you were unsure, so i'm not being a dick; i'm just seeking the truth along with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

No Offence taken, not being able to let go of TPTK is a huge leak of mine, I need someone to kick me in the nuts every time I do this!

Mat
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you cap

[/ QUOTE ]

This sucks. Raising again doesn't protect our hand and almost certainly isn't for value. I'd rather just call and see which of those monkeys likes his hand enough to cap.

And i know you said you were unsure, so i'm not being a dick; i'm just seeking the truth along with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

No Offence taken, not being able to let go of TPTK is a huge leak of mine, I need someone to kick me in the nuts every time I do this!

Mat

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm the same, I just don't like folding TPTK here, but if someone is holding a set (I'm thinking pocket three's most likely as TT &amp; KK would of been raised PF) I'm entering a world of pain.
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  #7  
Old 11-29-2005, 09:30 PM
jaxUp jaxUp is offline
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

I fold.
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2005, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

[ QUOTE ]
I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2005, 10:09 AM
WalkAmongUs WalkAmongUs is offline
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

I fold facing 3 cold. Somebody has something that beats TP. Ditch it.
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2005, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: How do I play AK here?

The point is, that it's NOT awful, awful advice. In fact, the AWFUL, AWFUL advice may be to bet for "value" here. I appended this shortcut, http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/mummert/poker/, to another question in this forum. In this link, the author discusses hand rankings, simulations, and creating viable ordering of the former by thoughtful implementation of the latter. He goes to great lengths discussing AK, and specifies its vulnerability to nFoes, as the number of players in the pot increases, the value of AK deteriorates. He advises raising the hand EP for PROTECTION, NOT VALUE in MULTIWAY pots, doing so IF AND ONLY IF a raise will prompt wholesale folds around the ring. Also, I believe it is poker stars that has a link to winning hands/values as generated by actual play, based upon every hand played at that site. AK is less successful than a pair of 9's. This is across millions and millions of hands. When do YOU raise a pair of 9's? And for WHAT reasons? Why would you recommend raising AK, if not because you've read a book that tells you it is the proper thing to do?

It is my experience that AKo especially, but AKs to a lesser degree as well, are among the most difficult hands to play. They possess all the problems of the overcard dilemma (usually they HAVE the overcard dilemma), all the vulnerability of middle pairs, and all the promise of AA or KK. Where and when to apply raising for value, protection, etc. is what this hand is all about. And any Pavlovian impulse like RAISE, RAISE!!, simply ignores the intricacy of the positional and table character variables that impact the value of this hand.

I would like to retract my citation of Miller's SSH for support on my recommendation on the value of this hand. I believe he advises always raise for value. However, though always raising for value is more proper than never raising for value, it doesnt cover all the bases, and certainly not in the kind of game we're discussing--loose, and very aggressive. And he does examine situations where AKo should not be raised.
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