Two Hands-Comments please

Buccaneer · #1 11-29-2005, 05:53 PM

Your comments needed. I am officially on tilt now so please serious comments only please. Scarcasm is ok but use it skillfully.

I have a special file for hands like the second one. Do You See Why?

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 1 folds, CO checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5.00 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8.00 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (17.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB.

silly_monkey · #2 11-29-2005, 06:02 PM

First hand:
Why do you check and call the turn and river? You have a full house and CO has shown no aggression! Bet the turn. 3-bet if he raises. B/C the river. You have the best hand here 9 of 10 times. Way,way,way to passive on this hand I think.

Second hand:

Wow does that suck. I think you can easily fold the river. Someone has an ace for sure. That being said... I probably call any just so I can show my cards and proceed to go on a tilt/rage fueled rant a la Hulmuth. But seriously... you should fold.

@bsolute_luck · #3 11-29-2005, 06:05 PM

well if he has 99 or K9 or something in hand #1 that sux, but bet the turn anyways. heck, i'd even 3-bet that turn. you will win more often than not.

hand #2: i'm not overcalling that river.

MrWookie47 · #4 11-29-2005, 06:10 PM

If it was just one bettor on that river, I call every time - it could be QJ. With two, one almost certainly has an A. I fold rather than overcall.

Hand 1 is terrible. Just lean on the bet/raise button and don't let up until he makes you scream Uncle.

DCWildcat · #5 11-29-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If it was just one bettor on that river, I call every time - it could be QJ. With two, one almost certainly has an A. I fold rather than overcall.

Hand 1 is terrible. Just lean on the bet/raise button and don't let up until he makes you scream Uncle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting almost 20:1? I think you might be overvaluing the overcall. If it's a no-brainer call HU, then it can't be an easy overcall getting such good odds. I call.

Hand 1--is that a joke? I'm thinking that hand should be in the bad beats forum. And if you aren't bet/raising till you bleed, as recommended above, you're insane.

tyler_cracker · #6 11-29-2005, 06:15 PM

Is raising KQo, out of the BB, against 3 opponents standard for everyone?

I agree with everyone else about everything else. Seriously, what's up with that turn check in hand 1??

sean c · #7 11-29-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is raising KQo, out of the BB, against 3 opponents standard for everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

No

Buccaneer · #8 11-29-2005, 09:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Is raising KQo, out of the BB, against 3 opponents standard for everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]
Miller in Getting Started.... suggest RAISING AKo, AQo, AJo, KQo from the big blind. Of course I doubt if Miller et al. ever played a hand of .50/1 limit on line in thier lives.

My thinking on why I raised this hand preflop:
<ul type="square">[*]Our little table from hell was chasing to the river. They were out of control.[*]Sometimes they folded to multiple agressive moves if they did not hit thier miracle draw by the river.[*]If my hand won I would win $2 for a .50 bet.[*]<scarcasm> I was thinking that if some beeding rectum wanted to play a weak ace then he could pay me extra and if he hit a runner, runner full house then he could feel better about himself for being stupid.</scarcasm>[*]I didn't think the world would conspire against this little raise and attempt to show strength and smack me down to the pit of tilt hell.[/list]
Do you think that my preflop play affected the results of this hand in any way other than costing me one more bb?

Can you tell me why?

tyler_cracker · #9 11-29-2005, 09:26 PM

To reassure you, let me say this first:

[ QUOTE ]

Do you think that my preflop play affected the results of this hand in any way other than costing me one more bb?

[/ QUOTE ]

No i do not.

[ QUOTE ]

Miller in Getting Started.... suggest RAISING AKo, AQo, AJo, KQo from the big blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK and AQ are easy raises. AJ and KQ are close, which is why i asked if raising from the BB was standard for everyone. Also, i *just* had this debate with STT 2+2er Slim_Pickens last week. Here is what SSH says:

[ QUOTE ]

You can open with any of these hands [AK, AQ, AJ, KQ offsuits]. Raise any of these hands if it has not already been raised.[40]

[40]: If the pot is already many-handed, perhaps five or six limpers, consider just limping with AJ and KQ. Your preflop edge is relatively small against so many opponents, and your call should give you strategic advantages which can make up for your small theoretical loss from not raising by allowing you to outplay your opponents after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hand chart for loose games says if there is no raise in front of you, raise AJ/KQ *except* in the blinds (the cutoff is AQ).

My default play in most positions with AJ and KQ is to just raise, because i (like to think i) play better than my opponents postflop and want to get more money in while they'll call with their garbage hands. From the blinds, though, you're OOP for the rest of the hand and no one who limped is going to fold their two live cards.

But it is close -- probably so close that this whole debate is moot and we can go back to flaming you for check/calling your flopped full house [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

#10 11-29-2005, 06:03 PM

Why no turn bet or raise on the first hand? He could have made a flush. Same with the river. KK, K9, K5, K3, 99 are the only hands you're behind.

Second hand looks fine.