Attempted isolation play + continued aggression + value bet

#1 11-28-2005, 09:58 PM

So, I was reading the posts today about how people aren't raising enough and using their reads to determine when a raise might be valuable.

Played this hand and wanted to get some feedback.

Saw a couple of orbits before this hand. Table seemed loose passive from the little I saw.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

When UTG+2 limped, I thought I'd try and isolate him. Unfortunately, both blinds called.

Flop: (8 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds.

After it was checked around to me, I figured I had to bet given my previous preflop aggression and my backdoor flush and straight draws. I had planned on folding if there was a bet and call before my turn.

Turn: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Given the SBs lack of aggressioin, I had to figured my Jacks were good, so I value bet.

River: (7 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

With the blank falling, had to try a value bet again.

Final Pot: 9 BB

McGahee · #2 11-28-2005, 10:34 PM

Nice job PF. Flop is very marginal, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't autobet this a lot. Turn is good. How big of a calling station is SB? The flop is about as ragged as it could possibly be, so I don't think you're killing any kittens by checking behind on the river with 2nd pair/mediocre kicker.

#3 11-28-2005, 10:46 PM

Not much of a read on SB. But since I value bet the turn and nothing changed, why stop?

#4 11-28-2005, 10:47 PM

Im giving you 3 outs after discounts. Check the flop.

#5 11-28-2005, 10:54 PM

Nice raise preflop.

I check the flop here. I never give credit to backdoor flushdraws and straight draws like this one. I never bet with those in mind.

When it's checked to me on the turn and I actually have something I most definately bet. And he cold calls me again...

Ok, the river and he checks it to me again. What can he possible have? And why was he calling me down to the river? he must have something or a failed draw but its not a draw heavy board so I check behind here.

#6 11-29-2005, 08:53 AM

There is no reason to isolate with J high. You should raise preflop based on your equity. Even if the player is loose with a 35% vpip, HE is still the favorite over you 55-45%. This may be a leak in yoru game.

If you were dealt ATo, then I could understand isolating him. JTs does well multiway. That means the more limpers the better. By raising, you are puching out potential limpers.

#7 11-29-2005, 09:28 AM

I like the way you played the pf and flop. His flop call makes me suspicious of a weak K or a pp. His check/call on the turn doesn't change my read much, so I would probably check the river. I think you are 50/50 here between the weaker pp and the K.

#8 11-29-2005, 09:52 AM

I am surprised at the responses to this hand. I think the hand was played wrong preflop and flop. OP said the table was loose, so why would you try to isolate. Even if you decide that isolating was correct, why would you do it with JTs? Why would you bet a flop with 3 loose oponents when you need to hit runner runner often just to win?

WalkAmongUs · #9 11-29-2005, 10:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am surprised at the responses to this hand. I think the hand was played wrong preflop and flop. OP said the table was loose, so why would you try to isolate. Even if you decide that isolating was correct, why would you do it with JTs? Why would you bet a flop with 3 loose oponents when you need to hit runner runner often just to win?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a single EP limper I probably go ahead and just call here as well, depending on how tight the limper is. If he plays >50% of his hands I might try to isolate with this hand.

I'd probably check through the flop with this many opponents and see what happens on the turn.

@bsolute_luck · #10 11-29-2005, 10:49 AM

i like this hand all up to the river.

preflop is very much fine. you will have a multiway pot given table read plus you'll easily get the free card if you want it seeing as you are on the button. i simply wouldn't term it an "isolation raise" but also to build a big pot.

this is a beautiful flop to bet. a very low ragged board and the K is scary. bet to fold any A/Q/stronger Js or Ts (AT or QJ). easy to fold to a c/r and we could again easily get a free card on the turn.

the turn i like because we hit, still have good position, possibly the best hand, and loose/passives sometimes make loose flop calls or with lower pockets..

the river i check through.