KK faces 2 on what i think is a semi-blank board

[@bsolute_luck]

reads: table is semi-loose/passive. nothing really crazy.

1/2 full ring. i've condensed preflop. just assume folds between.

Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Preflop: <font color="red">UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets</font>, SB cold calls, BB cold calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">SB bets, BB raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="red">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="red">BB caps</font>, <font color="blue">Hero...???</font>

then figure if you call and the turn is a non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], what do you do, does it matter what card it is?

the action would probably go: SB checks, <font color="red">BB bets</font> ??

[bozlax]

Where you been, @b? I guess I haven't been around, much, but I haven't seen your name in forever.

As to the hand, I'd say it matters if the turn is the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Otherwise, I'm going to war on a non-ace turn.

[jaxUp]

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I'm going to war on a non-ace turn.

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I really believe BB has a 7 here almost every time. I'd say often enough to fold turn UI unless he's a maniac.

[Salva135]

Eh, the pot is huge at this point, I'm at least calling this down unless there's serious action on the turn. BB is telling you he has a 7, but he could certainly be pumping a flush draw or overplaying JJ or QQ. Hard to tell what he would cold-call two bets OOP with that contains a 7.

[bozlax]

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I really believe BB has a 7 here almost every time.

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What hand that contains a 7, other than 77, do you think he calls 2 preflop, even from the BB? I think it's much more likely he's playing mid-pockets or a flush draw, and that the hands you're behind (AA/7x/22) on a non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn are greatly outnumbered by the hands you're ahead of that would be played aggressively (even by a normally passive player, and from the OP we don't actually have a firm read on the Villan, just on the table) on the flop. So, when the turn betting goes check, bet, your action, I think you have to pop him one more time and, if 3-bet, call and call a river bet UI unless an ace falls.

[imported_The Vibesman]

I find it easier to imagine a loose player calling out of the BB w/ 67s, 78s, A7s, or some similar silly hand, than a passive player capping this flop against so much preflop and flop aggression with just a pair of tens or thereabouts. The flush draw is more likely, I guess. But it's hard for me to see a really passive player playing a flush draw so aggressively on a paired board. Maybe I'm reading too much into this passive thing.

[Shillx]

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I'm going to war on a non-ace turn.

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I really believe BB has a 7 here almost every time. I'd say often enough to fold turn UI unless he's a maniac.

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This thread is really odd. This looks to be the most reasonable answer by far.

1) Is the Loose/Passive dude capping 99 or a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw on the flop? - I say no

2) Will the L/P dude call out of the BB with 7x? - Uhhh yeah

We are screwed here unless the read is off or something. In an aggressive game where it is unlikely that he has a seven, yeah call down for sure. This doesn't look like the time and place for it though.

Brad

Edit to add that I'm playing only on a turn K or a turn 7. Since 7x is FAR more likely then 22 here, we can't give ourselves more then just over 2 outs. If you knew he had 22 then I guess we would have to see a river here.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Is the Loose/Passive dude capping 99 or a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw on the flop? - I say no

2) Will the L/P dude call out of the BB with 7x? - Uhhh yeah

We are screwed here unless the read is off or something.

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This is, in a nutshell, my problem with the "he has to have a 7" line of thinking...we don't really have a read at all.

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Edit to add that I'm playing only on a turn K or a turn 7

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How does a turned 7 help your hand?

[cfjr2]

[ QUOTE ]

1) Is the Loose/Passive dude capping 99 or a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] draw on the flop? - I say no

2) Will the L/P dude call out of the BB with 7x? - Uhhh yeah

We are screwed here unless the read is off or something. In an aggressive game where it is unlikely that he has a seven, yeah call down for sure. This doesn't look like the time and place for it though.
Brad

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of late this is my experience in 1/2 Full at party also. I have been getting killed by cold calls to 2 and sometimes 3 bets with any Ax and any 2 suited. I have been called by a BDFD to the river by T6s for the runner runner flush, etc.

I put BB on A7 here. 1/2 does not play like 5/10 but it does play like call down with anything - so SB probably has a 2 or a flush draw or some lame PP he thinks is still good.

[@bsolute_luck]

We are getting hung up on the LP read, which i regret putting in now only because i really don't think it was a strong enough read to put him deadon an uber-LP. i probably should have reworded as: i hadn't seen much aggression from him. to put him on a 7 on his initial flop raise is weak-sauce. i see players, even LP, play QQ-99 like this as well.

3-betting that flop is/should be standard i think. once he caps however, my question is: should we call? i guess the pot is big enough to hope for our 2-outer? because it was my thinking that once i called that flop, i was seeing the showdown unless SB wakes up on a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

seriously, wouldn't you think a player would call my 3-bet and c/r the turn or donkbet again? seems more logical to me. what do you think of his play?