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#1
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Raising Preflop
When I raise preflop I am not hoping people will fold. Ever. In fact, when I play poker, I am not hoping anything; this is aside from the point.
When I raise AK UTG I want 9 callers. When I raise J10s on the button I want 2 callers. I do not want to thin the field. I raise for value. Thinning the field is a myth. |
#2
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Re: Raising Preflop
would a play like isolating a LAG type player when he raises by 3 betting with 66 be an exception?
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#3
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Re: Raising Preflop
At the tables I play at (loose and passive) I seldom have the occasion to make a play like this. Also, I think that type of play is highly over rated. I would be more apt to isolate a player who wants to fold alot than one who likes to bet and raise.
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#4
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Re: Raising Preflop
If this is your way of thinking, you may have an area of your game to work on.
You have JKo in MP2 with position on a loose passive fish, and tight players behind you. He open-limps, you... You have J7s on the Button with tight blinds, it's folded to you and you... |
#5
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Re: Raising Preflop
#1 - Raise. The first opponent has a hand weaker than me and JKo plays favourably against the remaining opponents. They are probably NOT folding AJ or KQ if I raise so I am not forcing out a better hand by raising but that doesn't matter. Most of the time they have worse hands and I almost certainly have the first player beat.
#2 - I fold. J9s I would raise here. |
#6
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Re: Raising Preflop
Its well know that some hands like big pairs and big off suit cards play better in pots contested by few players, because thier expected value and pot equity go down as more opponents are added.
Tell me how you play AA when you raise and receive 9 callers? I would much raither have an 80% equity to win a 5BB pot then a 10% equity to win a 14 or 15BB pot. Of course a hand like AKs or KQs love big pots, they play well multi-way. but hands like KQo, KJo, or JJ do not. |
#7
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Re: Raising Preflop
"Its well know that some hands like big pairs and big off suit cards play better in pots contested by few players, because thier expected value and pot equity go down as more opponents are added."
Prove it. This is not well known by me. "but hands like KQo, KJo, or JJ do not. " KJo doesn't like multiway pots because it's dominated by AQo when not AK / bigger pair is out and JJ when no bigger pair is out love big pots. Don't they? Prove it one way or the other. |
#8
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Re: Raising Preflop
[ QUOTE ]
"Its well know that some hands like big pairs and big off suit cards play better in pots contested by few players, because thier expected value and pot equity go down as more opponents are added." Prove it. This is not well known by me. "but hands like KQo, KJo, or JJ do not. " KJo doesn't like multiway pots because it's dominated by AQo when not AK / bigger pair is out and JJ when no bigger pair is out love big pots. Don't they? Prove it one way or the other. [/ QUOTE ] AA vs 9 randomed hands in two-dimes: ( LINK) Holdem Hi: 201376 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV Ac Ad 46336 23.01 154940 76.94 100 0.05 0.230 Qd Jd 35012 17.39 166264 82.56 100 0.05 0.174 9s 9h 12600 6.26 186842 92.78 1934 0.96 0.067 8s 8h 28213 14.01 173063 85.94 100 0.05 0.140 4s Kc 6470 3.21 192968 95.82 1938 0.96 0.037 6s 6c 18051 8.96 183225 90.99 100 0.05 0.090 2c 3h 8167 4.06 191840 95.26 1369 0.68 0.044 9c 2h 137 0.07 198036 98.34 3203 1.59 0.008 Kh Th 18625 9.25 180813 89.79 1938 0.96 0.097 7s 7c 22724 11.28 178552 88.67 100 0.05 0.113 Pokerstove enumerates to about 30% equity with 9 random hands Now... AA vs 2 other random hands Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards ( LINK) cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV Ac Ad 971323 70.86 395974 28.89 3457 0.25 0.709 Qc Jd 141501 10.32 1225796 89.42 3457 0.25 0.104 9s 9h 254473 18.56 1112824 81.18 3457 0.25 0.186 Pokerstove enumerates AA vs two random hands to 73% equity. |
#9
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Re: Raising Preflop
10 * .3 = 3
3 * .7 = 2.1 I win. edited in : While you clearly win more often in the second hand, the pot is so much bigger in the first hand. Your equity is 30% of 10 in the first and 70% of 3 in the second, hence my numbers. |
#10
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Re: Raising Preflop
Looks like 23% equity when you have 9 opponents, not 30% though it's nice to round up.
Certainly AA is a favorite against 9 random hands, but you will pay a lot of money to the river only find you have the worst hand a fair portion of the time. That's why I get nervous playing AA or KK in a big pot with more than 3-4 callers. |
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