JJ top set on a flush board HU

This one sticks out in my mind largely because I put money in when behind and not ahead. Yesterday was a crazy session, I played about 200 hands and then let my buddy take the reins when I went to eat, and he proceeded to spew BB's like it was going out of style. Regardless, here is the hand that I want some feedback on, and tell me what you think about my rationale for the play.


15-30

I raise first in MP with red JJ.

Only the horrible SB calls. Guy is terrible and will not fold a blind and his VP$IP is probably in the 60% range.


Flop

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]j [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]


He checks, I bet, he c'r me.

At this point I am confident that he'll bet the turn, so, I just call thinking that I can get a double bet out of him on the turn, and, if i 3-bet the flop he wont lead the turn. I'm figuring he'll make this play with any pair here, and didn't automatically put him on a flush draw, but I was well aware it was possible for him to make this play with the naked ace.

Turn

9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Ughhhh.....

Okay, he bet, and this time I raised.

Several reasons for this raise, one, I wanted to see if he just had a pair or if he had made his flush, and, If i was called I still had 10 ways to win, maybe like 1% of the time he mucks a baby flush, and, I figure I still have the best hand some of the time here....I know I'll get hammered for not three-betting this flop and leading the turn, but, If he doesn't c'r with a flush draw, then this is the correct play IMO because I get an extra BB on the turn as opposed to an extra SB on the flop. And if it's 50-50 whether he makes this play with and pair vs. any draw, it's slightly more +ev to raise this turn....(am i right here?)


He calls the raise after a very long pause.


River doesnt pair board, nothing spectacular.


He checks, i check behind.


Comments on all streets appreciated. This hand felt entirely backwards and awkward. Part of me wants to say 3 bet this flop and bet turn, but then I wonder how I play this hand if i 3-bet the flop and he leads the turn....ugh. I dont know what was correct here.




Tex

[krishanleong]

I don't mind the waiting to raise a non-flush turn. As the flush came in I just call/call raise if you go full.

Krishan

[Fianchetto]

I'll usually play this fast and just 3-bet the flop. A lot of turn cards may kill your action/make you not want to raise.

I don't know about raising on the turn here like you did, you are gonna hate getting 3-bet.

You thought there is a good chance he doesn't have a flush, so you raised the turn, but then check the river? Seems inconsistant.

I raise the turn because I figure sometimes he has a pair, a straight draw, or when the poker gods cooperate, a lower set. When he calls the turn, he has a flush almost always, hence my check behind on the river.

[CardSharpCook]

My usual line is to 3bet the flop, call down. Your line is interesting, and pretty good. I wonder if he ever tosses a flush here? He certainly tosses split pot outs. The one problem I have is that by doing this, we don't have him betting into us on the river, which is nice when it pairs or when he has a [censored] one-pair hand.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise the turn because I figure sometimes he has a pair...

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you want him to fold a pair?

id 3-bet the flop, the way this is played id call the turn and bet the river if checked to

[tongni]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you want him to fold a pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he's drawing for free.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise the turn because I figure sometimes he has a pair, a straight draw, or when the poker gods cooperate, a lower set. When he calls the turn, he has a flush almost always, hence my check behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

did you think he'd fold a small flush to your turn raise?

did you think he'd 3 bet you w/ a big flush card like K/A/Q?

what is the worst hand that he'd c'r that flop with?

how many cards on the turn cost you action or force you to call off chips (with about 1/4 of the decks worth of equity) to a better hand?

Barron

[tongni]

This hand is very well played. No sarcasm.

Edit: Since everyone seems to think otherwise, I'll explain.

If he has a pair, you want him to charge him to draw to a split. Not raising here is criminal. In fact, if he knows you have a set, he should call and hope to spike a spade to split the pot. I think. I'm pretty tired. Anyways it's close. If you get 3bet on the turn, well, I can lay it down on the river.

[SA125]

Either 3 bet the flop and lead the turn or smooth call the turn.

I've gotten away from raising turns where, if I was re-raised, I'd hate it a lot if I have to call and fold the river UI.