|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
A River Dilemma
Well, I see that there are already two river questions on the board today, but I hope no one will mind one more. Can someone give me a line for this river? And maybe the reasoning behind it?
Also, if you'd like to berate me for not raising the flop, I could probably use some of that too. CO is unkown, SB is 37/4/0.7, and seems fairly fishy. PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks. Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG folds, MP calls, CO calls. Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP folds, CO calls, SB calls. River: (10.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, Hero?? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
uh bet the river? call any raise or c/r.
also raise the flop. many times. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
You call a raise here? I guess I was just thinking that this guy's too passive to be bluffing a board this scary.
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
[ QUOTE ]
You call a raise here? I guess I was just thinking that this guy's too passive to be bluffing a board this scary. [/ QUOTE ] oh nm. thought only the flush came in, missed the straight. yeah, b/f. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You call a raise here? I guess I was just thinking that this guy's too passive to be bluffing a board this scary. [/ QUOTE ] oh nm. thought only the flush came in, missed the straight. yeah, b/f. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, see, this is what I was wondering about. I think one of the biggest problems I have in my river play is that I can't bring myself to bet/fold. I see people suggesting bet/fold lines a lot, especially in HUSH, and I always wonder if it's something I should be adding to my game. But I always end up thinking, check/calling will allow me to make it to showdown for the same one bet. As a consequence, I know I miss a lot of value bets on the river. I'm seeing some disagreement about whether folding to a raise would be correct right on the river here, and I don't know either. But I am wondering if anyone could lay out some general guidelines for when they bet/fold the river. Here is what I am thinking personally: 1. The pot should be relatively small. 2. There shouldn't be many (or any) hands that someone could raise with that you beat. 3. You should have a read that your opponents are not very aggressive/prone to bluffing. To me this hand fails the test because of #2 - like Redd said someone could raise two pair and not realize they were bluffing. Does anyone have any other guidelines or examples of when bet/folding the river is appropriate? |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You call a raise here? I guess I was just thinking that this guy's too passive to be bluffing a board this scary. [/ QUOTE ] oh nm. thought only the flush came in, missed the straight. yeah, b/f. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, see, this is what I was wondering about. I think one of the biggest problems I have in my river play is that I can't bring myself to bet/fold. I see people suggesting bet/fold lines a lot, especially in HUSH, and I always wonder if it's something I should be adding to my game. But I always end up thinking, check/calling will allow me to make it to showdown for the same one bet. As a consequence, I know I miss a lot of value bets on the river. I'm seeing some disagreement about whether folding to a raise would be correct right on the river here, and I don't know either. But I am wondering if anyone could lay out some general guidelines for when they bet/fold the river. Here is what I am thinking personally: 1. The pot should be relatively small. 2. There shouldn't be many (or any) hands that someone could raise with that you beat. 3. You should have a read that your opponents are not very aggressive/prone to bluffing. To me this hand fails the test because of #2 - like Redd said someone could raise two pair and not realize they were bluffing. Does anyone have any other guidelines or examples of when bet/folding the river is appropriate? [/ QUOTE ] Actually I think those are pretty good guidelines. Basically you're thinking, do the odds justify my call here. I misread this hand a little and thought that only SB was still in the hand. In this case I think it would depend on where the raise came from and if you had to overcall. If you get raised by CO then SB calls the raise I can't see how you're ahead. However, if CO folds and SB raises he could have 2 pair and the size of the pot would justify calling. I just always try to think how many times I'd have to be right in relation to the pot based on what I know about the player. If I know very little about him or he's aggressive I tend to call more than if he's a passive player. I remember a situation in B&M that really drove home not folding to one bet in big pots (I don't remember the hand exactly). I was in LP with JTs and flopped the straight. It was bet into me by a pretty passive apponent and I raised got two callers including the bettor. Turn made a 3 flush (not my suit) and I again bet and got same 2 callers. River came another flush card, 1st player checked (or bet, can't remember) and passive player bet (or raised). This was a large pot and I convinced myself he must've had the flush so I folded and watched him turn over 2 pair. This may be a similar hand. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
[ QUOTE ]
You call a raise here? I guess I was just thinking that this guy's too passive to be bluffing a board this scary. [/ QUOTE ] He might not think he's bluffing if he has AQ/AJ/AT. I'm willing to call in the big pot on the chance of an aggressive ace that made TP/2p. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
I don't know. A board that looks this bad with someone that just raised you on the turn. I guess getting 13.5 to one I can see it but I doubt you're good often enough. But you may be right, without a real good read maybe a call is in order.
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
Well, given the read on SB we can handread that he's not likely on a flush draw/OESD, except for possibly KQo. IMO this diminishes the chance of him being ahead enough to justify te pot odds we're getting on a call.
If CO raises us, I'm willing to pay off the raise because he's a complete unknown. The chance that he'd play this way with a hand that improved the river but is still losing is good enough to justify our pot odds IMO. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Re: A River Dilemma
I know this is a river question but why not raise the flop here. With this board you could get a lot of action. Even if only one player calls the raise you would still get as much as if you call and all 3 call behind you. As far as the river goes, I think you can bet here. I think that there's a pretty good chance that SB has just one or two pair. As he's pretty passive he probably did have a good hand when he bet on the flop like top pair. I think you will be called down with a worse hand more than 50% of the time. If he raises, I think it's an easy fold so you're still only risking one bet to gain one.
|
|
|