Counterfeited on the river...

PokerSparky · #1 11-18-2005, 06:02 AM

No read on CO.
SB was 55/11/.9

SB betting the turn after I capped the flop kind of froze me. Should I overcall on the river?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, MP calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG folds, MP folds, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (9 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, CO calls, Hero?

Final Pot: 14 BB

adsman · #2 11-18-2005, 06:25 AM

I hate letting posters have a free look at the flop. I raise this up preflop. This is a definate raise at 6max. I would have raised the turn. On the river, it sucks to be you.

PokerSparky · #3 11-18-2005, 06:35 AM

Yep, not raising this preflop was a mistake. So I take you fold the river?

adsman · #4 11-18-2005, 06:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, not raising this preflop was a mistake. So I take you fold the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would call if folding the winning hand would put you on tilt. The pot isn't small.

#5 11-18-2005, 10:19 AM

*Grunch*

First of all I think you should raise preflop.

SB must have picked up something on the turn, but it's really strange to bet out with a draw. AT is a possibilty or an unlikely made straight. The river sucks of course, I don't want to call this because our kicker no longer plays. I think your hand will be second or third best often here, but I very much like to call because of the big pot. This is a fold to me.

imported_The Vibesman · #6 11-18-2005, 10:24 AM

That's a weird donk on the turn. This player could have anything. If it was just him betting I might call down. But I think CO has you outkicked now anyway. I used to call this, but now I'm trying to make this laydown, without worrying about it.

jrz1972 · #7 11-18-2005, 10:33 AM

Raise preflop.

It's really hard to see how your hand is good here when you get capped on the flop and a loose-passive suddenly wakes up and leads into everybody on the turn. Folding the river is probably the right play since I think your hand is good like never and only rarely chopping, but like adsman said a call isn't awful if it will save your mouse.

(It's a lot easier to dump this on the river when you have to overcall to get to showdown).

#8 11-18-2005, 01:26 PM

A question: that A-9s derives a lot of its equity from the flush draw it represents (miller's website has an article on just this very thing). Doesn't raising destroy this attribute of the hand, since it's YOUR drawing ability that's compromised by the (voluntary) addition to the pot?

After all, you're seeing a probable six, and certainly five players looking at the flop. This must put you in harms way big time, if youre depending on the power capacity of the hand only. A lot of cards dominate that 9, and cutting the legs out from under the FD A9s represents is pretty much creating negative equity for yourself, isnt it?

This isnt .5/.10 limit. And it's PokerStars, which has about the average ability for the blind level, so sayeth Bonuswhores.com, anyway. I'm not sure I wouldn't fold this hand pre-flop, since it's so easily dominated. And you're not going to move any players out with a raise, surely not SB with that 55 rating, and the other players have committed money. I certainly would NOT raise here, not with that many players, and not with that marginal a hand, which, again, IS LOOKING TO ITS SUITED CHARACTER FOR PLAYABILITY in this situation. That A-9s is looking really, really marginal, I think; and extremely so after a raise.

Certainly the raise post flop was correct. I would put CO on maybe an Ax, and perhaps a 7, or maybe JJ, or some other good pair. Still he's beat at this point. I would worry about SB. He's flying under the radar, so to speak, and though he's a wanker, he obviously has the most to gain from further play.

When he bet the T, I would put him on two pair, AT, almost certainly. Raising sucks CO into making big mistakes, which he was happy to make. And the real problem with your hand showed itself with that T. Domination.

Now one or both the CO and the SB dominate your holding, no matter what, although I'm banking that SB has a boat. Absolutely fold.

tlt

imported_The Vibesman · #9 11-18-2005, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A I'm not sure I wouldn't fold this hand pre-flop, since it's so easily dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think raising and limping may be pretty close, but folding this on the button after three limpers/posters in an unraised pot doesn't seem right at all to me.

bottomset · #10 11-18-2005, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I wouldn't fold this hand pre-flop, since it's so easily dominated

[/ QUOTE ] +

a. you really need to reread the SSHE section on domination
b. domination is NOT a very big issue w/ a suited hand in a multiway pot
c. you aren't dominated very often here, since noone has raised
d.. folding here preflop is terrible