A triplet of Ax hands

[jason_t]

Live at an amazing Commerce table.

The Button is the same in all these hands. He's very aggressive and is a reckless bluffer.

--- Hand #1 ---

Folded to the Button who open raises. The SB calls and I call in the BB with black A7.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, I check, Button bets, SB calls, I raise, Button 3-bets, SB caps, I call, Button calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks, I bet

--- Hand #2 ---

Eight limpers to the Button who raises. The SB calls and I call in the BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Everyone calls so it's nine to the flop.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Checked to the CO who bets, the Button raises, the SB folds and I 3-bet

--- Hand #3 ---

We're five-handed now. UTG folds, loose-passive CO limps, the Button limps, the SB completes and I check red A2 in the BB.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks, I check, CO checks, Button bets, SB folds, I call, CO calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Checked around.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I check, CO checks, Button bets, I call

[shant]

Just how ugly and obnoxious are your opponents?

Hand 1- Why don't you fold the flop when it's two back to you?
Hand 2- I get this.
Hand 3- This is totally player dependent because some Commerce players do weird crap and some never bet there without a pair. I guess if he was ugly and obnoxious enough I'd call.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Just how ugly and obnoxious are your opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

So ugly and so obnoxious that I text messaged a close friend about it.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1- Why don't you fold the flop when it's two back to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I cannot understand not three betting in the second hand before the flop. This is like a fat chick in a pink dress in a bikini ad...

[thesharpie]

Hand 1 - I fold to the SB's check/call/cap.

Hand 2 - I think you have too much of an edge to not raise this PF, and the pot's going to be too big to manage even if you just call, if the flop goes perfect and they check to the button who bets you'll be offering 10 to 1 anyway. I could be wrong about PF though and hopefully someone will explain why if so. I have a rough idea of why it might be wrong, if it is.
I think I'd fold the flop, but if you are carrying on the 3 bet looks good, got to invest that extra SB that we might have to call anyway to increase our winning chances.

Hand 3 - Fold the flop, fold the river.

[Dennisa]

[ QUOTE ]

--- Hand #2 ---

Eight limpers to the Button who raises. The SB calls and I call in the BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Everyone calls so it's nine to the flop.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Checked to the CO who bets, the Button raises, the SB folds and I 3-bet

You are abosolutly nuts on this hand. If you are not going to try to 3 bet preflop to move out some of the limpers, This is a clear fold when it comes back to you on the flop. You got a r/r flush draw and 2 overcards that are most likely reverse dominated and against 8 opponents. You have no chance at this pot, you are just throwing good money after your bad.



[/ QUOTE ]

[jgorham]

You need to think a little harder. List how many outs you feel Jason has on this hand, and how large the pot is. Then you will know if a call is correct or not. And a reraise is almost certainly better than a call, because in a pot that big it is really the only chance hero has to clean up some of his outs.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to think a little harder. List how many outs you feel Jason has on this hand, and how large the pot is. Then you will know if a call is correct or not. And a reraise is almost certainly better than a call, because in a pot that big it is really the only chance hero has to clean up some of his outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

what outs are you cleaning up by 3-betting here?

[jgorham]

[ QUOTE ]
what outs are you cleaning up by 3-betting here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely want people with a 6 to fold, and anyone with JQ. But beyond that, I would want people with Ax or Kx to fold, in the event that they runner runner two pair and take down the pot that is going to be absurdly large by the river. In any case, it is quite the parlay - first your one small bet needs to be the difference between whether or not someone will call (which I don't think is too unreasonable), and then they have to win a pot that you would have otherwise won (the less likely half). But the pot is already 23 small bets when the action gets to you on the flop. And you know it is going to be more than that (probably around 30) by the time all the money goes in on the flop. So our parley only needs to happen 3-4% of the time to make 3betting better than calling, and I think that is the case.

As for preflop - the button (from Jason's description as well as from his actions in these 3 hands) doesn't seem like the type to just call a 3bet when there are 7 or more people in a pot he raised. He is almost certainly going to cap it to build a pot he can tell all his friends about. Not 3betting here is pretty bad.

[newhizzle]

yeah, maybe its worth it in a pot this big, but this just seems like the type of [censored] i used to do a lot and jason would tell me its bad