3 x cowboys, out of position, 400NL 6 max

All different tables at Party this week. Thoughts on what to do on the flop and beyond much appreciated!

Hand 1

I (665) open raise $16 with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] from UTG, MP calls.

MP seems to be normal loose-ish/aggro pre-flop, haven't seen anything unusual in 5-6 orbits. He checked down QQ on an A high board.

Heads up to a flop of J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], $38 in the pot.

I lead for $40, he raises to $120.

Hand 2

I have $469 and raise to $16 from UTG with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], MP ($460) calls, SB calls.

I haven't noticed MP play any hands in 5-6 orbits.

3 to a flop of Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], $52.

I lead for $45, MP raises to $120, SB folds.

Hand 3

I have $400 in SB. MP ($560) limps, I raise to $18, MP calls.

MP calls raises pre-flop a lot (eg with 23s out of position). He seems passive (with less than two pair) post-flop and not a complete calling station, but I imagine he'll call with most pairs, normal draws, etc.

Flop 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], $40 in the pot. I lead for $30, he min raises to $60.

[beavens]

hand 1 - fold

hand 2 - fold

hand 3 - 3bet

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 - fold

hand 2 - fold

hand 3 - 3bet

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this,

hand 1- leading turn sucks, villain might even raise again on the draw suspectin we are weak, just fold the flop

hand 2- I think this hand is trickier than hand 1. Here he could be on the draw, have a smaller pair, have the queen. I like call lead turn better here.

hand 3- easy 3bet, but what do we do when he smooth calls us on a turn that completes the flush or a blank turn, respectively?

[ QUOTE ]


hand 1- leading turn sucks, villain might even raise again on the draw suspectin we are weak, just fold the flop

hand 2- I think this hand is trickier than hand 1. Here he could be on the draw, have a smaller pair, have the queen. I like call lead turn better here.

hand 3- easy 3bet, but what do we do when he smooth calls us on a turn that completes the flush or a blank turn, respectively?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this analysis, except
(i) if villain is good enough to semi-bluff raise twice, I change table [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
(ii) I don't think you'll often see a semi-bluff raise with a QQ6ss board?
(iii) I think you check-fold if the flush comes (unless given odds); and bomb the turn if it blanks (ie be willing to play for your stack)

[Rozez]

#1: The only made hands I can put villain on are sets and maybe there's a slight possibility of QT. If he has two pair with this board, he's not playing very good poker preflop. His most likely holding is some kind of a draw, but like someone else already mentioned, the problem is this could still be -EV with kings. Reraising is an option here, the other way would be to call and see how things develop on the turn. Most of the time I play this hand, though.

#2: Like Ali said it himself, I think a semi-bluff raise is a rare play in this situation. He either has a monster or this is a ballsy bluff. Either reraise him to inform you're not going anywhere or fold. Instinct plays a big role in this hand.

#3: Call the flop raise and fold the turn if a dangerous card falls (unless he makes a small bet, then perhaps you can go to SD). I think you are behind on the flop so raising is not a good idea, IMO.

Rozez

[ajmargarine]

Hand 2 I fold and Hand 3 I 3-bet.

Hand #1 though....hmmmm. He is very likely to be drawing there, no??? Something like JT, 8c7c, AcTc or maybe just two clubs. Or I suppose he could have a set and we are hurting. Or a straight already. Can we call this and lead a total blank turn?

[beavens]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 I fold and Hand 3 I 3-bet.

Hand #1 though....hmmmm. He is very likely to be drawing there, no??? Something like JT, 8c7c, AcTc or maybe just two clubs. Or I suppose he could have a set and we are hurting. Or a straight already. Can we call this and lead a total blank turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm yeah.. i think i might like calling and seeing what the turn brings.. lead the turn and fold to a raise.

[rikz]

Well, fold or re-raise in all three cases based on your instinct at the time.

Hand 1: Fold. This is such a coordinated board that even most of the draws (like 7c 8c) have you -EV at this point. Given the fact that he got all passive with QQ when an A hit (he didn't even bet the turn or river after his opposition checked on prior streets), I think he probably has KK at a disadvantage even if he is drawing. Otherwise he has 2-pair (89/J9) or a set often enough to lay this down OOP.

EXAMPLE:
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8c 7c 571 57.68 410 41.41 9 0.91 0.581
Ks Kd 410 41.41 571 57.68 9 0.91 0.419

Hand 2: Re-raise to $240

Well, he has 66 or Qx or he's trying to scare you off your "obvious" AK continuation bet, possibly with a flush draw. I think re-raising to 1/2 your stack and folding to a push is best. If he just calls and then checks the turn, then check behind and plan to call a 1/4 pot on the river but fold to a river push. Really, if he calls a re-raise to $240 then you're probably beaten. I realize that this is a min-raise, but you're stack is shallow relative to the pot. Min-raising to $240 and folding to any more aggression is the only thing to do besides push or fold. If min-raising is unappealing, then I'd fold here before I push.

Hand 3-Re-raise to $200 and fold to a push. Here, at least, you are a little deeper so you don't have to min-raise. I think he is drawing, but he may have 2-pair, a set, or a monster draw that has you at -EV. Re-raising will blow out hands like TT or Ah 9h that are probing to see if your continuation bet has no substance.

Overall, these hands stink. I'd almost like to fold all three, except that doing so (especially at 6 max) is probably an invitation to get run over.

Ugh, I play bad. It's enough to drive someone to limp reraising :P

Hand 1: I reraised to $250. He folded. I think call/leading is best?

Hand 2: I reraised to $250. He called. Turn was blank, I checked he pushed for ~$200.

This is a clear fold, now, I think (though I unaccounably called in fact). Presumably I should either fold, or call/lead?

Anyone considering checking the flop here?

Hand 3: I just called, with the intention of getting a safe turn before proceeding. In fact the turn was the 3rd [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check called ~$50 on the turn (I had K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) and he checked behind with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the river.

Sigh...

[Dommer]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh, I play bad. It's enough to drive someone to limp reraising :P

Hand 1: I reraised to $250. He folded. I think call/leading is best?

Hand 2: I reraised to $250. He called. Turn was blank, I checked he pushed for ~$200.

This is a clear fold, now, I think (though I unaccounably called in fact). Presumably I should either fold, or call/lead?

Anyone considering checking the flop here?

Hand 3: I just called, with the intention of getting a safe turn before proceeding. In fact the turn was the 3rd [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check called ~$50 on the turn (I had K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) and he checked behind with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the river.

Sigh...

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though you won the first hand I think folding is best, you probably got him to lay down qq or aj, something like that. The thing is, if you call, you haven't defined his hand and theres a ton of cards that will kill your action on the turn forcing you to check and possibly make a mistake if he bets again. Just all sorts of bad things happen calling that flop raise imo. You also can't push because there are so many draws that are actually beating us here, its just a total crap spot for kk.

Hand 2 is too read dependant, but I think I might call his min raise and check the turn and see what he does.