a free showdown hand

[brettbrettr]

This is a good Borgata 10/20 game, mostly passive, most people suck.

UTG limps, I overlimp in emp with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], button limps, blinds play.

Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB (who plays draws aggressively, and just generally likes betting but calls way too much and isn't very good at saving bets or squeezing bets) bets, BB folds, UTG folds, I call, button calls.

Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], SB limps, I raise...

[Redd]

Why not just raise the flop for value and to get it HU with the LAG?

[brettbrettr]

He's not a lag. He has a hand when he bets, be it a piece of the board or a draw.

[Redd]

But there's still a good chance you're ahead of him, right?

With that board what can the button have where he doesn't have 5 outs or less? What does the raise to do for us? The pot is so small it doesn't really matter does it? Do you really think the button will fold a hand like A9,AT? If this is game is a passive one like you said, then my guess is no. I don't think you need to raise to protect your hand since the pot is so small and him calling wo/ the best hand is a mistake all by itself. And its cheaper like brett said.
Since you say he always has something when he bets, theres no draw on this board (unless you consider betting gutshots) for him to bet. Personally, don't play A3s from early position unless its a game where every pot is virtually a family pot.

[SippinSoma]

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The pot is so small it doesn't really matter does it?

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O Rly?

[Redd]

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With that board what can the button have where he doesn't have 5 outs or less? What does the raise to do for us? The pot is so small it doesn't really matter does it?

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The pot is 7SB after our call, so button would be getting implied odds to chase most 5-outers or almost even a gutshot. The raise is also for value since SB could have many hands that we're ahead of here.

I still don't understand why we're waiting until the turn here; so far, everyone's arguments for/against raising the turn are as follows:
The pros for a turn raise are that you may get value and you'll avoid giving button 5:1 odds. The cons are that you probably won't fold a better hand and you can't fold to a 3-bet.

But the arguments for/against raising the flop are the same thing:
The pros for a flop raise are that you may get value and you'll avoid giving button 7:1 odds. The cons are that you probably won't fold a better hand and you can't fold to a 3-bet.

So why not do this on a cheap street where it costs us less when we're 3-bet and gives zero cheap cards to button instead of one? Are you afraid that SB will 3-bet his (by the nature of the flop, weak) draw on the flop?

[brettbrettr]

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Why not just raise the flop for value and to get it HU with the LAG?

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Getting three-bet by someone behind me would suck. Raising the flop and being called cold would also suck. Calling the flop and being raised sucks. Seeing the player behind me call does not suck.

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Why not just raise the flop for value and to get it HU with the LAG?

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Getting three-bet by someone behind me would suck. Raising the flop and being called cold would also suck. Calling the flop and being raised sucks. Seeing the player behind me call does not suck.

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Getting three-bet would indeed suck, but doesn't it at least give you the information you need to know you are beaten and should fold? Doesn't getting three-bet on the turn suck even more?

What hand <u>correctly</u> cold calls a raise in this situation?

[brettbrettr]

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Getting three-bet would indeed suck, but doesn't it at least give you the information you need to know you are beaten and should fold? Doesn't getting three-bet on the turn suck even more?

What hand correctly cold calls a raise in this situation?

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Raising for info is not really a reason to raise. Paying 1 BB for info in this small pot is way too expensive for my taste.

As far as what hand correctly cold calls the flop, well, its more likely than not a hand that beats me. But I think I'll have more success getting a better ace to fold to turn when I raise there.

Getting three bet on the turn is possible, but unlikely. I'm basically never getting three bet by this guy when he has a better ace. He needs two pair to three bet me here. Most players don't three bet the turn with one pair.

The other thing no one has mentioned is that the turn card gave me a gutshot and I now have 4 more outs. If I get three-bet and don't improve, I can fold to the river bet.

I'm wondering if I make the same play without picking up the gutshot. Probably, b/c the key to the play is getting the button to fold what may or may not be a better hand. I wouldn't be happy about it though.