Aces cracking part deux...

#1 11-04-2005, 04:52 PM

Not a good day for me with bullets LOL...

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 21.25 BB.

Scotch78 · #2 11-04-2005, 05:25 PM

Turn raise looks pretty bad to me. There's nothing for MP1 to be representing and two aggressors to bluff out, plus there was only one strong draw for him to cold-call the flop with. I'm thinking MP1 has at least trips a very high percentage of the time, but the pot's big enough I would probably call down in the hopes he has a horribly played overpair.

Scott

W. Deranged · #3 11-04-2005, 05:28 PM

I think MP1's turn raise smells like [censored]. I'm very wary of it.

With that said, that doesn't mean I don't think we should raise. But we should be raising this turn with the intent to fold to a three-bet. The presence of the intermediate guy makes me want to charge him. He may have 67 or something in which case I want his money in there now.

Raising and folding to a three-bet really sucks here, but in my opinion it's much better than calling down. The extra value more than makes up for the very rare occurance we get three-bet by an inferior hand and fold a winner.

lightw1thoutheat · #4 11-04-2005, 05:37 PM

hey,
I was CO in this hand, and was just about to post this hand.
What did you put me on?
I particularly liked the way i played it, but we can argue that at another point. I hoped that youd pay off a river raise with a big pair.
-light

thesharpie · #5 11-04-2005, 05:40 PM

Ducks? I can't think of any hand you played well.

lightw1thoutheat · #6 11-04-2005, 05:58 PM

fair enough, its my first day back after a month or so off for a variety of reasons.

I planned on c/r ing the turn, but doing that after a harmless deuce falls looks odd. I wanted to keep this pot three handed. I felt that MP had an 8, and that hero had some overpair. When MP lead the turn, that changed things for me. I suspected a raise from Hero, had been pretty aggro so far in the session, and obviously liked his hand. The two shouldnt scare him if he has a big pair.

Donkbets arent particularly scary either. I didnt want to lose him with a raise. When MP 3 bet, i knew a call/cap from me kills action. Calling again can assure me 1 bet from hero on turn, and at least 2 bets total on river.

On river, i thought i can get 1 bet each from mp and hero by overcalling. But i knew MP would call a raise, and maybe 3 bet. I hoped that hero would coldcall what looks like a very odd bet. Either way, im just coming back and advice'd be nice.

thanks,
-light

OOps, had 55

W. Deranged · #7 11-04-2005, 06:05 PM

In general I think the best strategies for this flop should involve check-raising a single bet on the flop and donking a lot of turns. You should be willing to raise on the flop if it looks promising. Check-three-betting in this scenario likely would have killed to much action in my opinion, though. So I like the way the hand actually played out for you.

Nick C · #8 11-04-2005, 05:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hey,
I was CO in this hand, and was just about to post this hand.
What did you put me on?
I particularly liked the way i played it, but we can argue that at another point. I hoped that youd pay off a river raise with a big pair.
-light

[/ QUOTE ]

55? A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]? 98s? 87s?

W. Deranged · #9 11-04-2005, 05:58 PM

Probably A8 or 55. In that case I think you played the hand quite well in fact. I love donk-betting turns with monsters. Idiots like me advocate raising the turn and hence make you a lot of money.

Nick C · #10 11-04-2005, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hey,
I was CO in this hand, and was just about to post this hand.
What did you put me on?
I particularly liked the way i played it, but we can argue that at another point. I hoped that youd pay off a river raise with a big pair.
-light

[/ QUOTE ]

You're in an awkward position on the flop, since any checkraise of the field on this board will be scary. But I think I would have gone for a checkraise, hoping at least to get a call or two or three from overcards before showing strength.

All of a sudden on the turn you're in an awkward spot again (though it's a pleasant surprise to have MP1 wake up like that), and I can see why you called. If Hero smells a rat and also just calls, though, that's really bad for you, since you're most likely at least getting called by MP1 if you raise (and possibly you're getting 3-bet).

The cold-call of the 3-bet is a little bit risky, as if by some chance MP1 has 22, you don't want Hero hanging around with his four outs, for just one bet. But your play is +EV those times that MP1 has trips instead (as he usually will, I think), so long as Hero would fold if you capped and so long as MP1 is going to start calling down versus any additional raise from you at this point.