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#1
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Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
How's my line? I haven't seen this player get out of line at all. They are TAG and I suspect a MTer. Would you rather C/C down after the flop? These are the kinds of hands I feel like I play well when I'm "on" but I'll let you be the judge.
FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: BigEndian is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BigEndian calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, BigEndian calls. Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">BigEndian bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, BigEndian calls. Turn: (6.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BigEndian bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BigEndian folds... - Jim |
#2
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
Some TAGs are so aggressive with unimproved overcards that I probably would check-call down after the flop.
If I wanted to be more aggressive, though, I think I'd 3-bet the flop and go from there. |
#3
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
[ QUOTE ]
Some TAGs are so aggressive with unimproved overcards that I probably would check-call down after the flop. If I wanted to be more aggressive, though, I think I'd 3-bet the flop and go from there. [/ QUOTE ] I agree! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] |
#4
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
That's a good point. But does a player have to be a rock to take the line I took? Unless he just spews, I don't think the turn raise is anything less than a pair. My line has to look like a PP or an idiot with an Ace and he hasn't seen me make any big folds.
- Jim |
#5
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
[ QUOTE ]
That's a good point. But does a player have to be a rock to take the line I took? Unless he just spews, I don't think the turn raise is anything less than a pair. My line has to look like a PP or an idiot with an Ace and he hasn't seen me make any big folds. - Jim [/ QUOTE ] The turn fold seems fine to me. If this is higher than 5/10, though, then I don't know. (And, actually, I'm still getting used to the increased aggression at 5/10.) |
#6
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
[ QUOTE ]
That's a good point. But does a player have to be a rock to take the line I took? Unless he just spews, I don't think the turn raise is anything less than a pair. My line has to look like a PP or an idiot with an Ace and he hasn't seen me make any big folds. - Jim [/ QUOTE ] One thing I think about sometimes that's sort of theoretical is that your line does represent a pocket pair, like you say, and the line is exploitable, if Villain thinks he can get you to lay that pocket pair down with a turn raise. I think about this sometimes when I'm taking a similar line to yours (with a flop 3-bet thrown in). I don't know how many TAGs actually exploit this line. Probably not too many. (A turn raise with just overcards is just spewing if you won't lay your hand down.) But it's something I have started considering more, now that I'm playing 5/10, because in general some of my standard 3/6 lines don't seem as effective at my new limit. |
#7
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] That's a good point. But does a player have to be a rock to take the line I took? Unless he just spews, I don't think the turn raise is anything less than a pair. My line has to look like a PP or an idiot with an Ace and he hasn't seen me make any big folds. - Jim [/ QUOTE ] One thing I think about sometimes that's sort of theoretical is that your line does represent a pocket pair, like you say, and the line is exploitable, if Villain thinks he can get you to lay that pocket pair down with a turn raise. I think about this sometimes when I'm taking a similar line to yours (with a flop 3-bet thrown in). I don't know how many TAGs actually exploit this line. Probably not too many. (A turn raise with just overcards is just spewing if you won't lay your hand down.) But it's something I have started considering more, now that I'm playing 5/10, because in general some of my standard 3/6 lines don't seem as effective at my new limit. [/ QUOTE ] This is just so spot on. OP has clearly defined his hand as a mid pp. This may be one of those times that I want to see showdown, even if calldown is not strictly warranted. Learning/knowing that villain would raise this turn with overs would be +EV over the long term. |
#8
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
If we checkcall down after the flop we let villain have as much as 6 outs in a 7BB pot. I think most TAGs won't raise with a hand like AQo again after a stop'n go.
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#9
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
i'd rather have 3-bet this flop. if the turn goes bet/raise again i'd feel better about the fold.
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#10
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Re: Middle pair against a TAG, crowd on the flop.
I posted yesterday a few questions on this hand type.
One thing that came across unanimously was that this hand is a preflop raise. This combined with the 3 bet suggested post flop would seem to have given you more information to make the turn decision. |
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