Everything's tell me he's got the good stuff...but I HAVE to call

Go Blue · #1 10-26-2005, 07:00 PM

MP2 has a very low AF...something like 0.6. Can this be played any other way?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

River: (4.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

Oh yeah, I don't konw what the problem with this converter is, but it SHOULD say on that on the river, he bets and I call again.

hobbsmann · #2 10-26-2005, 07:05 PM

"Can this be played any other way?"

You can raise preflop if you want. Postflop I think this line is fine.

Nick C · #3 10-26-2005, 07:12 PM

MP2 could be trying out a pocket pair on the turn, in this pot no one is showing any interest in. And in the more likely event that he just hit his ace, there's a good chance you have a lot of outs to a chop (in addition to the small possibility of hitting your kicker).

The river card sucks (among other things, you now have the worst possible ace), but I'd probably call again too.

krimson · #4 10-27-2005, 10:43 AM

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MP2 could be trying out a pocket pair on the turn

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I personally don't feel like an extremely passive player like this would try out a pocket pair after an ace hits on the turn. I think he is either betting an A or 5.

Also I'm not really sure about raising the turn like people are suggesting. I doubt we're getting a better ace to fold, we're certainly not getting anything else that has us beat to fold. We have top pair and I don't see much harm in letting people chase. Raising the turn "for information" is just silly. It costs us 2 bets to raise for info, and it will probably only cost us 2 bets to play it passively and showdown. I'd rather just showdown cheaply.

The Goober · #5 10-26-2005, 08:44 PM

I think I actually like raising the turn here, intending to check behind on the river. You lose the same amount if he has a better A, you win an extra bet if he was betting a turned flush draw and would have c/f the river, and on the off chance that someone behind has a decent draw, you can protect your hand. The only case where this line is bad is if MP2 has a medium PP that and won't call the raise.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, I don't konw what the problem with this converter is, but it SHOULD say on that on the river, he bets and I call again.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the converter screws up, just fix up the generated text before you submit - it's really not hard.

pokernicus · #6 10-26-2005, 10:21 PM

I might raise this turn, since it buys you information. If you are behind you'll know it and it won't cost you more overall. If you're ahead, you can get an extra bet (or maybe even win the pot right there).

Calling might be a reasonable alternative. The problem is that you're now behind to *any* Ace (except A6 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). But, I still probably call this because there are a number of worse hands he can have (e.g., a medium pocket pair, etc). Also, psychologically, if your opponent has no hand, he may still want to take a stab at the pot realizing that it may be the only way he wins it. You are probably getting the 5.75:1 odds you need to call this on the river.

milesdyson · #7 10-26-2005, 10:43 PM

no hand advice here, but the river card only improved A2. we still beat A3 and A4.

pokernicus · #8 10-27-2005, 10:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
no hand advice here, but the river card only improved A2. we still beat A3 and A4.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep - you're right -- good catch! I had misread the board and didn't notice that it had a pair of fives -- which counterfeits the kickers of anyone with A3 or A4.

Go Blue · #9 10-27-2005, 12:35 AM

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I might raise this turn

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That's no good in my opinion, since there are still players to act behind. That could be a lot of trouble potentially.

lionhorse · #10 10-27-2005, 12:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I might raise this turn

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That's no good in my opinion, since there are still players to act behind. That could be a lot of trouble potentially.

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I don't think we should be too worried about this, if they've got the goods they'd rather bet than risk getting checked thru again.

I'm going for the turn raise as well, calling a bet on the river, and would probably bet about 30-50% of the time if checked to.