Schumer, Leahy, Boxer, Pelosi, Reid in Unison Budget Deficit Too High

adios · #1 10-26-2005, 07:27 AM

Do you think these folks will be proposing lots of spending cuts? I don't. Do you think these folks will be proposing income tax increases? I do.

Before we get the usual "they only want to raise taxes on the rich" response, let's define rich and then let's actually have a break down about which income groups pay what percentage of income taxes. After that let's quantify how much revenue the new income taxes will bring in, how much more will be needed in the outlying years, and what economic assumptions the estimates are based on. While we're at it, what is the desired income distribution? I'v stated this before, until politicians can tell me what their desired income distribution is I will support no increases in income taxes. I think this is a fair question and one that needs be answered before politicians ask people to make "sacrifices" by paying more taxes.

ACPlayer · #2 10-26-2005, 07:33 AM

Feeling better now?

#3 10-26-2005, 10:00 AM

So, is your point that we need not worry about the deficit? WOO HOO! Who said there's no such thing as a free lunch?
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#4 10-26-2005, 10:29 AM

Can anyone link me to somewhere I can find the deficit figures, adjusted for inflation, expressed as a % of our GDP? I'd like to go back as far as the depression. (the real one. that most folks talk about.)

I'm not having a lot of luck and getting confused/pissed.

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#5 10-26-2005, 01:53 PM

I think we should lay off the rich. I mean, according to the bible they're all going to hell. Let them enjoy it while they can.

andyfox · #6 10-26-2005, 02:01 PM

What does income distribution mean and what does it have to do with income taxes?

As far as the "usual" only want to raise taxes on the rich, that was John Kerry's proposal: he only wanted to undo the Bush tax cuts for those making over $200,000/year. While we may quarrel with his definition of the "rich" and his numbers, (if he did indeed use the word for those making over $200,000), he was specific in who he wanted to change the tax rate for and how much money it would have brought in.

I doubt those folks will be recommending income tax increase for any marginal income tax rate except the highest; and that they will be recommending income tax incrases for any earners except the highest bracket earners.

Then again, I picked Houston to win the World Series.

vulturesrow · #7 10-26-2005, 02:37 PM

<blockquote>En respuesta a:<hr />
What does income distribution mean and what does it have to do with income taxes?

[/ QUOTE ]

With apologies to adios for stepping in here, a progressive income tax system is income redistribution plain and simple.

andyfox · #8 10-26-2005, 06:59 PM

How so? I could understand the argument if a higher earner gave his money directly to a lower earner, but everyone gives to the government and certainly higher earners benefit from government spending more than lower earners. And anyway, in practice, our progressive taxes are virtually cancelled out by our flat and regresssive taxes.

vulturesrow · #9 10-26-2005, 08:15 PM

<blockquote>En respuesta a:<hr />
How so? I could understand the argument if a higher earner gave his money directly to a lower earner, but everyone gives to the government and certainly higher earners benefit from government spending more than lower earners. And anyway, in practice, our progressive taxes are virtually cancelled out by our flat and regresssive taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure the highest tax payers dont receive welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment , food stamps, etc. People that tend to benefit the most from these programs are those little or no taxes. It might not be as direct as you or I walking down the street and handing a personal check to someone on the outs, but in practice, it might as well be.

Riverman · #10 10-26-2005, 08:36 PM

"I am pretty sure the highest tax payers dont receive welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment , food stamps, etc. People that tend to benefit the most from these programs are those little or no taxes. It might not be as direct as you or I walking down the street and handing a personal check to someone on the outs, but in practice, it might as well be."

Your analysis is simple minded and false. There are of course some government programs that primarily benefit those in low income groups. However, there are also a number of programs that either benefit all citizens relatively equally or primarily benefit those with higher incomes. Social security, for example, is in essesnce subsidized by everyone except the rich since income is exempt from SS taxes above a certian threshold.

I would also argue that even though most conservatives frequently complain about a loosely defined "bureaucracy," they derive significant benefits from regulatory agencies such as the SEC, FBI, FDA, etc. Also transportation funding disproportionatly benefits those well off enough to get around by car. Finally, there are a number of tax deductions and loopholes that exclusively benefit people with money. Examples include the mortgage deduction, business deductions, and charitable giving deductions.