AT hand that's been bugging me

Nfinity · #1 10-25-2005, 01:55 AM

Some background info. This is a dream table. There's not a whole lot of Pre-Flop raising unless it's me, and there's a whole lot of calling down to the river with garbage.(Not by me [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

UTG is 58/16/.9 I have quite a few hands on this player, and I've seen the reason for such a contrast between the PFR and post-Flop aggression factor is the tendency to open raise weaker hands such as small PP's and Broadway cards like QT and TJ, but play them meekly when nothing hit on the flop. I've also noticed a tendency to overplay TPWK regardless of the action, or possible straight and flush possibilities on the board. Waits for the Turn on all big flopped hands, such as a Set or Trips, or a flopped flush.

CO is 62/5/.9 and is the biggest fish at the table. He loves to Cold-Call my raises and call me down to the end with a flopped bottom Pair weak kicker. I've seen him hold a Premium PP 3 times and only once did he give any action pre-flop, and that was when it was raised back to him, in which case he 3-bet. The other 2 times he raised the flop with his Overpair. Other than that his Post-flop play is dicey. He would raise flops with an overpair, but would more often than not call down with a hand like TPGK. He usually doesn't raise past the flop with any less than 2 pair, and will wait for the Turn to get his money in on these hands.



PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

 This is the first attempt I have made at isolating UTG. This is probably also the first time I have faced the field with 3-bet and was rather surprised by the reaction. Dream Table indeed. Other than the fact that I believe UTG would Cap here with a Big PP I haven't really narrowed anyone's hand down much.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG raises, Hero calls, CO calls, Button folds.

 Check-Raising with a draw is not this guys style, although I haven't put it out of my mind yet. If he had a big PP which is now an underpair, I think he would be content with calling down to Showdown. Trips crossed my mind and was a very good possibility, but even at this table I have seen him wait for the Turn with just as many callers on the Flop. A2 doesn't seem likely because it would have to be offsuit. A9 is a little more likely, but still fallable in that regard. Although I'm not ruling the though of a Set out, I think that UTG's most likely holding that I would be benind to is a Bigger A.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls...

This was one of those Big Pot, Don't Fold situations. If CO held a hand that I was being beaten by before now he would have raised the Turn. Unless he rivered me I think I am safe in regards to him most of the time. On the plus side I think he calls here on the end with a whole lot of hands I beat. I made the call because 15BB's is a big pot to me.

Redd · #2 10-25-2005, 01:59 AM

I don't really like your pf play. This is a marginal holding, UTG is UTG, 16% VPIP isn't that high and you're still a dog against his range, and you're very rarely isolating him on the dream table.

MrWookie47 · #3 10-25-2005, 02:02 AM

With a read as good as his was, though, I think the PF3bet +EV. He'll know how to outplay him postflop, and he has position.

Redd · #4 10-25-2005, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
With a read as good as his was, though, I think the PF3bet +EV. He'll know how to outplay him postflop, and he has position.

[/ QUOTE ]

But he doesn't have position on the rest of the the fish. And while he can outplay each of the opponents, he's trying to outplay them in different ways. If he can get the pfr alone on the flop and strongarm him into a bad fold, I like the pf3b, but even if he can get the pfr to fold he'll likely be facing a large field behind him.

MrWookie47 · #5 10-25-2005, 02:08 AM

Also, you're right, 16% isn't all that big. However, OP says this guy is raising low PP's, JT, and other things we'd like to be up against with AT. If we get capped, we know we are in a world of trouble, but we'll know to be able to fold correctly. I think AT is boarderline. AJs is a no-brainer 3bet. AJo yes. ATs probably. ATo is right on the boarder.

irishpint · #6 10-25-2005, 02:11 AM

<blockquote>En respuesta a:<hr />
Also, you're right, 16% isn't all that big. However, OP says this guy is raising low PP's, JT, and other things we'd like to be up against with AT. If we get capped, we know we are in a world of trouble, but we'll know to be able to fold correctly. I think AT is boarderline. AJs is a no-brainer 3bet. AJo yes. ATs probably. ATo is right on the boarder.

[/ QUOTE ]

certain conditions make this play correct. i just dont feel like the table is right for this. if everyone else was TIGHT and would allow us to isolate...but he said specifically they are loose gooses.

#7 10-25-2005, 02:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, you're right, 16% isn't all that big. However, OP says this guy is raising low PP's, JT, and other things we'd like to be up against with AT. If we get capped, we know we are in a world of trouble, but we'll know to be able to fold correctly. I think AT is boarderline. AJs is a no-brainer 3bet. AJo yes. ATs probably. ATo is right on the boarder.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sits below my borderline.

Because of this.

IrishPint
[ QUOTE ]
i dont think it works here because no one folds until the river

[/ QUOTE ]

irishpint · #8 10-25-2005, 02:03 AM

<blockquote>En respuesta a:<hr />
I don't really like your pf play. This is a marginal holding, UTG is UTG, 16% VPIP isn't that high and you're still a dog against his range, and you're very rarely isolating him on the dream table.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is truth. pf killed this hand i think.

Nfinity · #9 10-25-2005, 02:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like your pf play. This is a marginal holding, UTG is UTG, 16% VPIP isn't that high and you're still a dog against his range, and you're very rarely isolating him on the dream table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said this was my first time with the 3-bet and I really didn't expect this type of response.

However, if they are CC'ing my raises with 51% and 43% of their hands respectfully(CO and Button) then things don't bode well for them when they are just CC'ing my 3-bets.

This was taken into account when I decided to call on the Flop, when determining my Turn actions. The Turn was going to be a fold had I not improved in some way, I think.

MrWookie47 · #10 10-25-2005, 02:00 AM

While this is a great post in terms of how it was posted (excellent reads, complete thoughts, etc. New players take note!), I think this was played well.