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#1
10-17-2005, 01:35 PM
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Smooth call the flop?
UTG is maniac, raising 45% of his hands this session. Very LAG!. 42/14/1.7
SB is OK with 17/9/1.9 Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls. Flop: (10 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero..? This is what I'm thinking. I'm very probably ahead here, and my two opponents are very probably drawing very slim. I strongly feel that the SB is going to fold, and UTG is LAG and will bet out the turn as another bluff. My main question is isn't it better to go into check-call here. Let him keep bluffing his chips away to me as he's drawing very slim. I could even check call flop, check call turn, and pop the river, or bet it if he checks it. 
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#2
10-17-2005, 01:40 PM
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Re: Smooth call the turn?
what's the SB calling standards pre-flop? What happens if you call the flop and he raises?
I like your strategy HU against the maniac, and I would like it somewhat if you flopped J-high...but for all you know, the SB has AQ...chances are he doesn't, but I want to raise the flop and get him out - the pot is big enough without him and you know you're going to get action from the maniac. Hell, you may even get the SB to fold AQ here.
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#5
10-18-2005, 09:12 PM
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Re: Smooth call the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
but for all you know, the SB has AQ...chances are he doesn't, but I want to raise the flop and get him out [/ QUOTE ] zoinks. Are you serious? Would YOU fold AQ on the flop? Ever? -Eric
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#6
10-18-2005, 09:36 PM
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Re: Smooth call the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but for all you know, the SB has AQ...chances are he doesn't, but I want to raise the flop and get him out [/ QUOTE ] zoinks. Are you serious? Would YOU fold AQ on the flop? Ever? -Eric [/ QUOTE ] well, let's pretend we're the SB....pre-flop, it's 3-bet before it even gets to us...OOP, I fold an offsuit AQ easy here, I call if it'ssuited - but I'm looking for hearts or a Q more than I'm looking for an Ace... On the flop, we have an Ace...we check (not sure about this, I might go for a CR or donk-bet out here) ...if it's then bet and raised, and back to us again for 2 bets...do you really like your AQ now with no real draw potential??? Granted, it's all player dependent but are there really that many decent players out there who aren't folding AQ here??
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#7
10-18-2005, 09:45 PM
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Re: Smooth call the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
Granted, it's all player dependent but are there really that many decent players out there who aren't folding AQ here?? [/ QUOTE ] Wow, you really would fold AQ there. Amazing. Personally, if I see a flop for 3 bets with AQ and flop an ace, I am, for all intents and purposes, showdown bound. I'm certainly not folding to the first raise, which players often make with any pair and any ace, and CERTAINLY not when I recognize the initial bettor as a maniac, suggesting the raiser does not need to have the nuts to raise. In fact, if the raiser does have AK, he has misplayed his hand. So either I give him credit for being a thinking player and believe my hand is good, or I think he's a weak player and still think my hand is good. Folding there would not even enter my mind. To fold the flop would essentially be to admit that your preflop call was awful. Do you really think this guy is going to get that much better at poker in the two seconds between when he makes the call and when he sees the flop? good luck. eric
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#8
10-18-2005, 09:49 PM
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Re: Smooth call the turn?
To make the point even clearer Dominic, raising the flop is only the best play when your opponent:
a) has AQ b) will fold to the raise This is going to happen very close to never. However, any time he has, say, a pocket pair, raising is foolish as you are likely to drive him out. The pot is getting big, but it's not so big that you prefer him to fold a 2 outer. He'll hold a pocket pair quite often, so you should play in the way that extracts the most from this hand. Further, even if we ignore the SB, calling is better against the hand range for UTG. For him, 2 outs may even be generous. It's much better to just call and give the maniac hope he can bluff you out if he just keeps firing. good luck. eric
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#9
10-19-2005, 02:30 AM
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Re: Smooth call the turn?
I think you make a valid argument.
IF I actually see a flop with AQo from the small blind for three bets - a big if - I admit stringing the SB along might be be advantageous. However, I do think that with the pot so big to begin with, it's perhaps a better play to try and win it right away, instead of slow-playing. Your way seems to me to be a "way ahead/way behind" scenario which I don't think is quite right. Although, I do so the advantage of seeing the river for as cheaply as possible with what is only TPTK. As that hand is extremely vulnerable, I would probably choose to put the SB to the test by raising the flop and hopefully getting him out, and extracting two BBs from the maniac. If he happens to fold for less than that, oh well ,I've still won a nice pot. You make good arguments,though, and I enjoy learning from other's POV and experience. My way is certainly not the only way!
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