flopped set after LRR and crazy flop action

newhizzle · #1 10-15-2005, 01:58 AM

no reads
whats my plan on the turn, am i worried about giving away free cards, or should i just let them keep going?

Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, MP2 calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (20.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+2 3-bets, MP2 caps, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (16.00 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero ...

Alex/Mugaaz · #2 10-15-2005, 02:29 AM

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no reads
whats my plan on the turn, am i worried about giving away free cards, or should i just let them keep going?

Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 folds, UTG+2 raises, 1 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, MP2 calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (20.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+2 3-bets, MP2 caps, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (16.00 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero ...

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At first I thought this question is kind of simple, but I guess it's really not.

I'm checking the turn. If UTG+2 bets and mp2 calls Ill CR, if UTG+2 bets and MP2 raises Ill just call hoping for UTG+2 to 3bet. If MP2 just calls the 3bet I'll cap the turn.

In pots like this if they cap the turn between themselves they will both be way gunshy on the river. Based mostly on feel I may donkbet the river, most players balls are gone here unless they have the absolute nuts. Also I really don't want to get 3bet on the river if I CR it. So most of the time I'll just donkbet. If you donkbet the river and it comes back 2 bets to you I'll obviously call but expect to be beaten.

If I donkbet the river and MP2 capped the turn, and now raises the river I'll just call.

I have to admit though that I am not very confident im my advice for this hand. The situation just doesn't happen that often.

felix83 · #3 10-15-2005, 02:42 AM

I am folding this facing the cap PF. Very often the limp/3bet is KK or AA, and you're way behind. Nothing wrong with the first call, but you're out of position for the rest of the hand with garbage if you don't flop a set, and even if you do it often won't hold up in this situation.

Alex/Mugaaz · #4 10-15-2005, 02:47 AM

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I am folding this facing the cap PF. Very often the limp/3bet is KK or AA, and you're way behind. Nothing wrong with the first call, but you're out of position for the rest of the hand with garbage if you don't flop a set, and even if you do it often won't hold up in this situation.

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If you fold preflop with a pp getting 8-1 you just don't get poker.

felix83 · #5 10-15-2005, 10:59 AM

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If you fold preflop with a pp getting 8-1 you just don't get poker.

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Normally I never would, but again, it's just because of what I very often see turned over when a guy limp/caps that makes me fold here. 8-1 is great, unless someone has shown you (and from what I've seen it's true about 90% of the time) a higher PP. In reference to the later post, I have read and reread SSHE, although it was a while ago, so I honestly can't remember if these odds make it unimportant that someone likely has a higher PP at this point. If that's the case, then I'll happily admit my mistake and correct my game accordingly. That's what I'm here for. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Stealthy · #6 10-15-2005, 02:15 PM

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If you fold preflop with a pp getting 8-1 you just don't get poker.

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Normally I never would, but again, it's just because of what I very often see turned over when a guy limp/caps that makes me fold here. 8-1 is great, unless someone has shown you (and from what I've seen it's true about 90% of the time) a higher PP. In reference to the later post, I have read and reread SSHE, although it was a while ago, so I honestly can't remember if these odds make it unimportant that someone likely has a higher PP at this point. If that's the case, then I'll happily admit my mistake and correct my game accordingly. That's what I'm here for. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Of course he has a higher PP and that is exactly what you want him to have. How much of a mess do you think you have somebody with AA in if you flop a set here?

You have plenty of odds to try and hit a set and if you don't you are gone on the flop in the absence of a straight draw. You can also expect your flopped set to hold up the vast majority of the time here as well. The 8 - 1 odds and the simply MASSIVE implied odds if you flop your set in this big pot make calling correct and folding simply terrible.

newhizzle · #7 10-15-2005, 07:53 PM

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If you fold preflop with a pp getting 8-1 you just don't get poker.

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Normally I never would, but again, it's just because of what I very often see turned over when a guy limp/caps that makes me fold here. 8-1 is great, unless someone has shown you (and from what I've seen it's true about 90% of the time) a higher PP. In reference to the later post, I have read and reread SSHE, although it was a while ago, so I honestly can't remember if these odds make it unimportant that someone likely has a higher PP at this point. If that's the case, then I'll happily admit my mistake and correct my game accordingly. That's what I'm here for. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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youre going to hit a set more than once in 8 times, it dosent matter what they hold, you have to call, if they have AA and KK, that is better for you because it pretty much guarentees implied odds that you really dont even need

Harv72b · #8 10-15-2005, 02:48 AM

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I am folding this facing the cap PF. Very often the limp/3bet is KK or AA, and you're way behind.

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The action on the flop is more than enough justification for calling the second time preflop. Folding a pocket pair preflop would be a pretty significant mistake.

shant · #9 10-15-2005, 05:03 AM

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I am folding this facing the cap PF. Very often the limp/3bet is KK or AA, and you're way behind. Nothing wrong with the first call, but you're out of position for the rest of the hand with garbage if you don't flop a set, and even if you do it often won't hold up in this situation.

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Adam22 · #10 10-15-2005, 05:51 AM

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I am folding this facing the cap PF. Very often the limp/3bet is KK or AA, and you're way behind. Nothing wrong with the first call, but you're out of position for the rest of the hand with garbage if you don't flop a set, and even if you do it often won't hold up in this situation.

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i think we're all aware that he's got garbage if he doesn't flop a set. do you understand why small pairs are valuable multi-way?