(11) Raise 5xbb with 1010/JJ from EP according to HOH?

From early position in an $11 Sng, how do you play pockets tens and jacks? Harrington advocates raising 5x bb (more than you would with AA-QQ). I suppose this 5xbb would translate into more like 7xbb since the people on party 11s are so loose. Is this a good strategy? Or better to limp with these pp? Also, does is it different for level 1 and level 3?

-grant

[pineapple888]

Personally, I think it's an awful idea to open raise different amounts with different starting hands, since you are leaking information.

There are valid arguments for limping, raising, and folding these hands in EP. In a nutshell:

Limp: play for set value/undercard flops

Raise: Protect a strong but vulnerable hand, hope to get heads-up

Fold: Can't stand any heat with these hands, too many other players to act, too many other tables demanding my attention.

I think Harrington was talking about people that knew hands like A4o and K7s aren't premiere hands, unlike the people that play the 10+1s. I limp and call a 3xBB at most. If undercards flop I'll usually bet the pot.

[runner4life7]

I disagree completely with the leaking info idea. At the 100s maybe, but at the 10s, come on. No one takes notes like raised to 65 meant AK raised to 70 means QQ, and if they do they are wasting their time at the tens.

[pineapple888]

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I disagree completely with the leaking info idea. At the 100s maybe, but at the 10s, come on. No one takes notes like raised to 65 meant AK raised to 70 means QQ, and if they do they are wasting their time at the tens.

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Actually, it seems like you *agree* completely that it's a leak, then you *assume* everyone will ignore that leak. I personally prefer to plug leaks, even at the so-called "awful" 10s.

But whatever.

[runner4life7]

and thats why i bet random amounts from like 65-80 with hands like AK, QQ, JJ and so forth to prevent it, but if you can get reads based on the bets of people at the 10s, which im not saying is impossible then by all means do it because +EV is +EV

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I disagree completely with the leaking info idea. At the 100s maybe, but at the 10s, come on. No one takes notes like raised to 65 meant AK raised to 70 means QQ, and if they do they are wasting their time at the tens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it seems like you *agree* completely that it's a leak, then you *assume* everyone will ignore that leak. I personally prefer to plug leaks, even at the so-called "awful" 10s.

But whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Game theoretic optimal poker should not be your goal. You should actively try to exploit your opponents' weaknesses. This necessarily means exposing a weakness in your own game. You can't exploit someone else's suboptimal play without playing suboptimally yourself.

You shouldn't consider it a leak to do this. A leak is a mistake you regularly make that costs you money. If "No one takes notes like raised to 65 meant AK raised to 70 means QQ" then it isn't costing you money to raise different amounts, and in fact if you correctly exploit the fact that no one takes such notes then it will make you money. If the cash is flowing IN instead of OUT, that certainly can't count as a leak, 'cause nothing is leaking.

[pineapple888]

OK, I'll bite...

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Game theoretic optimal poker should not be your goal. You should actively try to exploit your opponents' weaknesses.


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Game theory takes into account your opponent's weaknesses.

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This necessarily means exposing a weakness in your own game.



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Wrong.

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You can't exploit someone else's suboptimal play without playing suboptimally yourself.


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Wrong. You really should learn at least a little bit about game theory.

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You shouldn't consider it a leak to do this. A leak is a mistake you regularly make that costs you money. If "No one takes notes like raised to 65 meant AK raised to 70 means QQ" then it isn't costing you money to raise different amounts



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Did you read my post? Your assumption that *nobody* at the tens *ever* pays attention has to be *100% correct* for this not to cost you money.

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and in fact if you correctly exploit the fact that no one takes such notes then it will make you money.


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Nobody in this thread has yet demonstrated the wonderful money-making potential of the OPs suggested strategy.

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If the cash is flowing IN instead of OUT, that certainly can't count as a leak, 'cause nothing is leaking.

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Wrong again. At least you are consistent.

If your results are worse than they should be, it's a leak, regardless of whether you are ahead or behind at any particular moment.

[JudoGirl]

I never raise 3x bb from EP with 10/15 blinds. It essentially accomplishes the same thing a minraise would, which most people would agree is not good. Either call or raise around 5x. But that goes for AA-QQ and AK too (except that calling with AA-QQ,AK should be a rare occurance and only when you know that someone will raise behind).

1010/JJ in early stages of 11s is a limp/fold to reraise hand. Im not open raising this hand because of too many players calling with K4o etc. Too many chances an overcard is going to hit someone and then my pair is dead.