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#1
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Anyone checks through the turn here?
UTG+1 is 21/14/1.6, UTG+2 is 40/16
Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>. Flop: (7.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls. Turn: (6.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero ??? ------------------ I think the turn is a bet, but it does often lead to the unenviable position of calling a turn check-raise and deciding what to do on a blank river. |
#2
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
I really think you are giving, not taking a free card here most of the time. When you aren't you are nearly always drawing very live. A 40/12 and 21/14 have so many 1-pair/gutshot hands here that I think a check is pretty bad.
And ya, sometimes you get check-raised by AK, don't improve on the river, and have to play poker, and that sucks. |
#3
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
so your raise on the flop was for a free card then? or for value? i think you need to have a plan for the turn before you raise the flop.
i think it's a value bet for a couple reasons. first off if UTG+1 had a one pair hand like AK or AA wouldn't he want to make UTG+2 face two cold on the flop? and secondly, and most importantly, you called two cold preflop and hit your hand about as good as you could hope for on the flop, so if you can't bet this flop/turn, why call his raise in the first place? thoughts? -tony |
#4
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
[ QUOTE ]
so your raise on the flop was for a free card then? or for value? [/ QUOTE ] I think he did for both reasons, as well as to gain info. [ QUOTE ] i think you need to have a plan for the turn before you raise the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I believe he did, however, was surpised that it was ck'd to him on the turn, for whatever reason, of which, I believe he will explain later. [ QUOTE ] i think it's a value bet for a couple reasons. first off if UTG+1 had a one pair hand like AK or AA wouldn't he want to make UTG+2 face two cold on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] I would think he would save that move for the turn if the heart doesn't come. [ QUOTE ] and secondly, and most importantly, you called two cold preflop and hit your hand about as good as you could hope for on the flop, so if you can't bet this flop/turn, why call his raise in the first place?thoughts?-tony [/ QUOTE ] Good point. I can only deduce that he feared a fold/fold to his bet on the turn, and, that a check may possibly induce a bet on the river that he can raise. |
#5
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
I'll bet 100% of the time here. Value bet a river blank if checked to me as well, call down a c/r or 3-bet if UTG+2 plays along.
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#6
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
Is this cold call standard? I will do it in a volume pot with KQs etc, but against a UTG1 TAG and one other player?
Easy turn bet, I really think most TAGs are 3-betting the flop with anything that beats you -- its pretty obvious you could be making a free card play, he knows this, and will defend against it with a made hand. |
#7
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
[ QUOTE ]
Is this cold call standard? I will do it in a volume pot with KQs etc, but against a UTG1 TAG and one other player? [/ QUOTE ] You don't believe UTG's numbers are loose enough to warrant a call? I consider it close, however, if we hit the flop, can we not expect some decent action? [ QUOTE ] Easy turn bet, I really think most TAGs are 3-betting the flop with anything that beats you -- its pretty obvious you could be making a free card play, he knows this, and will defend against it with a made hand. [/ QUOTE ] They don't get tricky enough to try and max their EV and go for a ck/raise on the turn, when the heart doesn't come? |
#8
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
I think the preflop call is borderline. The factors that pushed me to a call was that UTG+1's PFR was 14 so although reasonable, he is the type that would open raise here with a pretty wide range, not just hands that have me dominated. Then there was the fish that cold called. I don't think it's a clear call by any means and I don't do it everytime.
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#9
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
[ QUOTE ]
I think the preflop call is borderline. The factors that pushed me to a call was that UTG+1's PFR was 14 so although reasonable, he is the type that would open raise here with a pretty wide range, not just hands that have me dominated. Then there was the fish that cold called. I don't think it's a clear call by any means and I don't do it everytime. [/ QUOTE ] I think a preflop 3 bet might be worth some thought here. In this situation (an open raise from decent/perhaps a little on the LAG side player, followed by a coldcall from a total donk) I've been experimenting with 3 betting a little light in position. As long you think you are probably not dominated, I think 3-betting is better than calling here (but folding may still be best). |
#10
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Re: Anyone checks through the turn here?
I'd bet here just about every time. You may already have the best hand and if you don't, you almost certainly have outs to make the best hand. I wouldn't be thrilled to get check-raised here but I wouldn't be weeping onto my chips about it, either.
SpaceAce |
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