Cardplayer Hand Of The Day

[SnglMaltScotch]

If found this one very interesting. Discussion??

A $20-$40 game. You are in middle position with K-K and raise an early limper. Only the small blind and the early limper call. There is $140 in the pot and three players. The flop is: Q-4-4, giving you kings over fours. The small blind bets. The early limper folds. Rather than raise, you decide to just smooth-call. You want your opponent to keep betting his queen so that you can raise him on one of the expensive streets. There is $180 in the pot and two players. The turn is the 7. The small blind bets. You now raise. He reraises. What do you do?
Answer


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Fold. Unless you know your opponent to be extremely tricky or simply unpredictable, it is hard to believe that your hand is any good. His most likely holding is something with a four, giving him trip fours. There is $380 in the pot, and it costs you another $40 to call when you are dead to a king. The pot odds are not there to play two outs. Agreed that he called your preflop raise, but he was in the small blind. Many players will call raises out of either blind with any pair, any suited ace, any suited king, any suited connector, and so forth. For him to have a four in his hand is well within the realm of possibilities. If you call now and a blank comes, you must call at the river if he bets.

[shant]

I'm surprised CardPlayer didn't advise a fold on the flop.

[W. Deranged]

Jim Brier and Bob Ciaffone strike again...

This is a damn tough fold here, but, honestly, it's not a totally unreasonable one.

Personally, I think a better line in this hand is to wait all the way until the river to raise, because it is much less likely that villain's three-bet at that point is coming from a hand less than KK. The turn three-bet may well be from a hand like AQ, because at the 20/40 level people start to get wary of turn raises and begin to punish what they believe are bluff attempts.

I'd like read on the small blind. The fact is that only certain kinds of players are likely to call a hand with a 4 in it in the small blind to a raise. Those kinds of players are also generally not the kind of players who will simply bet out a monster hand like trips (at least on the east coast, where I play live). A player loose enough to call a hand like A4 here in a three-way pot out of the small blind against tight raiser is often going to try to play cagily and check-raise the turn.

Personally, the hand I'm fearing here is not a hand with a 4, but exactly 77. I'm beating everything else logical, and so I don't want to fold here.

[paperboyNC]

If you are playing $20/$40 at the Commerce against the usually loose passives, then you would probably fold here.

If you play $20/$40 online, you would never fold here.

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are playing $20/$40 at the Commerce against the usually loose passives, then you would probably fold here.

If you play $20/$40 online, you would never fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[2+2 wannabe]

wow....does anyone actually fold this? I seriously can't fathom folding here with an overpair to someone that could easily be holding aq/kq/qj

granted, reads here would be lovely

[oxymoron]

I need reads here. I would need to know how the hero has been playing recently up to this hand and how the villain has been playing. The pot is offering 9.5 to 1 we are behind QQ, 77, x4, Q7 and AA. I could easily see QQ calling here to see a flop first and slowplaying. It could be also be likely that the villain has nothing and is tired of us pushing the table around or has QJ, QK, QT or he really does have a hand and we are extremely behind.

I hate these hypothetical situations that provide no reads on how the hero and villain have been playing. They are kinda pointless.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]


I hate these hypothetical situations that provide no reads on how the hero and villain have been playing. They are kinda pointless.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've described what is probably the most serious weakness in Ciaffone/Brier's book. (Which I tend to like more than most on these boards...)

[Oblivious]

Okay... say youve just sat down and this situation occurs. Or youve been playing on auto pilot and havnt bothered to note any of his hands yet. We're beating Q7.

[A_C_Slater]

If I'm gonna raise the turn and fold to a reraise then I'd rather call the turn and call the river. At least then I get to see what he's cold calling out of the SB with and I get to see a showdown for the same price with a hand that may be best. If he checks the river then I of course bet.

On the downside I lose a bet if he has a good Q here. Though he could also have a mid pocket that he's donkbetting with and will fold to a turn raise anyway.