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#1
10-02-2005, 02:11 PM
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Fold top pair nines to TAG\'s turn raise? Prty 20/40
Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is BB with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. 2 folds, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero checks. - MP1 is tight and not terribly aggressive preflop at 17/6 and with pretty high aggression postflop. I don't know him real well, but he looks like a winner in the full ring from what I've seen. SB is terrible loose passive 66/6. Flop: (3 SB) 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players) SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, SB calls. Turn: (6 BB) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players) SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero???? Comments on any street welcome, but I'm most interested in the turn. B. 
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#2
10-02-2005, 02:28 PM
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Re: Fold top pair nines to TAG\'s turn raise? Prty 20/40
Looks to me like you're beaten here. Your best bet is probably folding, bc I would imagine you're behind to some type of two pair. Not sure if the math warrants taking one off or not. If you think he has something like bottom two or middle two a call is in order to try and suck out, but I think you have to fold the river UI, however if he has 89 95 you're in trouble. Not sure what the math needs to be to warrant taking one off here. Maybe someone can whip it up real quick.
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#3
10-02-2005, 09:16 PM
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Re: Fold top pair nines to TAG\'s turn raise? Prty 20/40
[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like you're beaten here. Your best bet is probably folding, bc I would imagine you're behind to some type of two pair. Not sure if the math warrants taking one off or not. If you think he has something like bottom two or middle two a call is in order to try and suck out, but I think you have to fold the river UI, however if he has 89 95 you're in trouble. Not sure what the math needs to be to warrant taking one off here. Maybe someone can whip it up real quick. [/ QUOTE ] This guy is tight, there is no way he is playing 52 or 85. If he has 2 pair, it's 89, against which I have 3 outs and have to fold. Other likely hands are, I think, a set of 5's (though not too likely he'd limp fives first in from mid), 9's, possibly 8's (though less likely given flop action), an over pair (what it felt like to me ... he doesn't raise a lot preflop, so limping TT or JJ would fit, as well as AA or maybe KK going for a limp reraise). Hands I beat that he could have, I dunno, possibly a suited 9 like T9 he was overplaying? Maybe overplaying A5s w/ flush draw and middle pair? B.
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#4
10-02-2005, 09:23 PM
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Re: Fold top pair nines to TAG\'s turn raise? Prty 20/40
I don't make this fold. Your hand is good here a ton. I see him on the flush draw with 2 overs alot of the time, maybe even both draws with something like jts. 9Ts is certainly a possibility. If you're losing, I'd expect to see 88. Of course, I never really fold.
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#5
10-02-2005, 09:37 PM
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Re: Fold top pair nines to TAG\'s turn raise? Prty 20/40
[ QUOTE ]
I don't make this fold. Your hand is good here a ton. I see him on the flush draw with 2 overs alot of the time, maybe even both draws with something like jts. 9Ts is certainly a possibility. If you're losing, I'd expect to see 88. Of course, I never really fold. [/ QUOTE ] This statement is the best reply on this thread. On this board, there are many hands a tag would raise the turn on that A9 is ahead of. To name a few hands:97s, JhTh,flush draw,flush draw/pair. If a passive player raised you on the turn then folding is ok. But against a good player getting 9-2 to call down is good enough odds to continue especially since you may have the best hand, and even if the villain has an over pair you are getting the correct odds(9-1) to draw against him unless he has precisely AA. So my advice is Call down.
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#6
10-02-2005, 10:20 PM
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Re: Fold top pair nines to TAG\'s turn raise? Prty 20/40
On this board, there are many hands a tag would raise the turn on that A9 is ahead of. To name a few hands:97s, JhTh,flush draw,flush draw/pair.
I don't think a 17/6 type TAG is open limping 97s from MP1, and do you really think he's putting in that turn raise with overs and a flush draw after that flop action? I guess sometimes yes, especially JhTh picking up the open-ender. This is one I would have routinely called down in the past but I'm trying to find spots to fold when I think I'm definitely beat and don't have odds to draw. Your point about having correct odds to draw vs an overpair is good, though, then if you get to the river and it's a non-heart I guess you have to see showdown. B.
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#8
10-03-2005, 10:26 AM
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Re: Fold top pair nines to TAG\'s turn raise? Prty 20/40
[ QUOTE ]
It would take a hell of a read for me to fold this. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the input, NLSoldier. I guess I swung a bit too much to the weak tight on this hand, cause I folded and don't know what the guy had. Running bad can sure mess with your game. B.
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#9
10-03-2005, 11:09 AM
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Re: Fold top pair nines to TAG\'s turn raise? Prty 20/40
The presence of the third player makes it likely you are beaten. I would fold, what does he have, JT of hearts? Nah. However, some percentage of the time I will checkraise the turn here, if I feel he's going to bet again.
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