Not you ace!

[testaaja]

It really makes me anxious to have the ace flop. It just feels like everytime I have a hand an ace comes and ruins my plans. Oh well.. Is the river bet ok?

Hero is UTG+2 with [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K
UTG calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, UTG+3 coldcalls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

FLOP (4 handed, 9sb):
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+3 calls.
TURN: [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+3 coldcalls, SB calls.
RIVER: [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+3 calls, SB calls

Well, what do you say? Thanks.

[Sightless]

Question, why wait till turn to raise?

[testaaja]

[ QUOTE ]
Question, why wait till turn to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
Good question I think I misplayed this big time. I have to raise the flop so that I know where I stand. These passive players only call if they got the ace and it costs me less.
Edit: Thanks riverdood. Big time!

[Link774]

Yeah, that sucks. I would raise the flop, make those two to your left call two cold, they may just fold an A. Turn and river play depend on what happens after the raise, of course. As you played it, I would have probably folded the turn, because one of the 3 of em probably has an A.

[RiverDood]

[ QUOTE ]
It really makes me anxious to have the ace flop. It just feels like everytime I have a hand an ace comes and ruins my plans. Oh well.. Is the river bet ok?

Hero is UTG+2 with [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K
UTG calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, UTG+3 coldcalls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

FLOP (4 handed, 9sb):
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+3 calls.
TURN: [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+3 coldcalls, SB calls.
RIVER: [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+3 calls, SB calls

Well, what do you say? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like you got married to KK in the face of overwhelming evidence that the hand wasn't working out. I'd see two main alternatives to consider here.

1. Fold after the SB bets on the flop. If three other people wanted to be in this hand preflop, at least one -- and probably two -- have an Ace. No amount of stomping around on your part is going to push them out. Unless you catch a third K, you're behind all the way through and just paying off a better hand. . . . It's always a shame when a premium hand doesn't work out, but part of playing them well is to let go of them when they don't work. Picking up KK (or AA) doesn't guarantee you a pot.

2. Raise the SB's flop bet. Hope that UTG+3 has an A-small and is tight/weak enough to fold it, certain that he's outkicked. Then you're isolated with the SB, who either has a heart draw or a Q or an A. He probably has an A and will beat you -- but you could call down the SB for the rest of the hand and hope that he has JJ or KQ or something that you can beat. If UTG+3 calls your flop raise -- or reraises -- get out of the hand on the turn.

In this case, it just feels like you're building someone else's pot on the turn and river.

[POKhER]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Hero is UTG+2 with [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K
UTG calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, UTG+3 coldcalls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

FLOP (4 handed, 9sb):
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+3 calls.

Well, what do you say? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Fold after the SB bets on the flop. If three other people wanted to be in this hand preflop, at least one -- and probably two -- have an Ace

[/ QUOTE ]

THIS IS A VERY WEAK TIGHT ASSUMPTION.

Now whilst many microplayers (party .50/1 beginner tables LOVE THERE A2o and their A6o or Any Ace).

YOU NEVER ASSUME SOMEONE HAS IT, you may think someone MIGHT have it but if you CONSTANTLY FOLD THESE HANDS.

The good players will note it, and you'll leave alot of cash at the table.

Who says SB doesnt hold Q2o ?

[RiverDood]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Hero is UTG+2 with [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K
UTG calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, UTG+3 coldcalls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

FLOP (4 handed, 9sb):
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+3 calls.

Well, what do you say? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Fold after the SB bets on the flop. If three other people wanted to be in this hand preflop, at least one -- and probably two -- have an Ace

[/ QUOTE ]

THIS IS A VERY WEAK TIGHT ASSUMPTION.

Now whilst many microplayers (party .50/1 beginner tables LOVE THERE A2o and their A6o or Any Ace).

YOU NEVER ASSUME SOMEONE HAS IT, you may think someone MIGHT have it but if you CONSTANTLY FOLD THESE HANDS.

The good players will note it, and you'll leave alot of cash at the table.

Who says SB doesnt hold Q2o ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Careful. I didn't say you have to fold this hand at the flop. I said you've got two choices: fold or raise, hoping to push out UTG+3 and isolate against the SB. I'd try the flop raise if I thought my table image was good enough to intimidate UTG+3 into a fold.

I'm not sure what your preferred line here is. Bear in mind that you've now got middle pair. If you'd like to try a random assortment of call/bet/raise all the way to the river and see how it holds up in a multiway pot, I guess you can. But as the rest of the thread establishes, that's usually a pretty good way to spew chips.

More important, a fold here actually is not bad at all for Hero's table image. If people believe Hero is raising preflop with borderline hands and then turning tail when an A shows up, Hero should be able to make a lot of money with AK, AQ or AJ in subsequent orbits.

[POKhER]

just making it clear that assuming someone has an ace(as you did) is weak tight and i don't want the original poster to ge tinto these habits.

My line is to usually raise here, I'd like to see a SD with KK and we do have 2outs(Unlikly).

We have many outs to beat top pair(Q2o for example).

Will get rid of UTG and see if SB likes his hand.

Turn action is impossible to say as its dependent on what happend after i raised the flop.

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
Who says SB doesnt hold Q2o ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if he does, we're still behind, drawing to five outs on the turn and eight on the river.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
2. Raise the SB's flop bet. Hope that UTG+3 has an A-small and is tight/weak enough to fold it, certain that he's outkicked

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind UTG+3 cold called preflop. If he has ace/small he's seeing the river with it more than likely.