JJ-way too fast?

[tdarko]

2/4 NL no read on the villain other than the table hasn't done anything tricky yet.

there are 5 limpers to me in the CO with JJ. i raise it $20 and the blinds fold, UTG calls the $20, and a MP limper calls the $20.

stacks:

Hero- $440
UTG- $420
MP- $705

Flop is (4 4 2)pot~73

UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $60, UTG raises $60, MP folds, Hero reraises $200...

this little min-raise was weird here, whats my line? any suggestions?

i just thought if i was up against a bigger pair i would have seen a limp reraise before the flop and thats when i would see the fireworks, instead i saw a limp call? this hand really confused me and just wanted some help.

[Big_Jim]

Raise more PF.

This hand is very read dependant.... what does his min check/raise mean?

Against many 2/4 players, this is an auto-fold on the flop.

Against many others, I think that calling down is the way to go. Unlikely villian has a big pair, and there are lots of overpairs to this flop (which are his most likely holdings, I think). If you 3-bet, I think any pair <JJ gets away pretty easily.

Only if villian is a donk who can't lay down a hand do I like your line.

[Raven]

AS Big Jim said I think he would a reraise a bigger pair before the flop so you look ahead most of the time here.

For myself, his min check-raise look more like a smaller pocket pair wanting "to know where he stand" (hoping you are betting two overcards wich is likely here) than a big hand, as a big hand is not likely with this flop, and he would tend to usually slowplay it.

So I would just call down to not scare the underpairs and get caught only again the bigger hands, and you dont fear a free cards with his likely range of hands.

[AZK]

start off by making it 40 to go preflop

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
start off by making it 40 to go preflop


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this seems to be the general consensus and i agree. the table had been kind of tight, standard raise by villains was $10-$12 and my standard raise had been $16-$18. there was already a medium size pot and a lot of traffic (this is why we make it $40 i know) but i didn't want to completely get rid of all action.

i think if i raise $40 here, everyone folds right? is that what i want?

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
is that what i want?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup.

[RikaKazak]

I disagree, why take it down now? if you're going to do that, do it with 5,6s, not JJ, JJ playing a flop has more value.

[AZK]

anything and everything has some relative value in the game. Who cares whether this is done with JJ or 65s?

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, why take it down now?

[/ QUOTE ]
maybe b/c JJ is a tricky hand to play post-flop?

[Big_Jim]

Do you like the posters PF raise?

There's no flop in the world you can be that comfortable with that doesn't have a J on it when everybody calls that meager bet.

Admittedly... I don't really mind too much when only one or two call... but when EVERYBODY calls.......