so does he have a set or what?

newhizzle · #1 09-22-2005, 09:23 PM

BB is 58/5/0.7
SB is 22/0/3

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10.00 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, Hero...

SackUp · #2 09-22-2005, 09:29 PM

or what - i'm not putting him on a set just yet. he might have 2 pair or something like KQ that he wasnted to "slowplay."

raise this preflop. isolate the limper or at worst get teh button.

#3 09-23-2005, 05:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
raise this preflop. isolate the limper or at worst get teh button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I wrong in thinking this is awful advice??? Granted it was no UTG raise, but a UTG limp on a normal player surely isn't gonna be worse than a bad bad QTo on average, is it?? I think aggression gets taken too far here sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Especially when that 58% BB is gonna call anything except a freakin 72 here cuz he's "already invested".

But as it is, I think you can call down if the SB has been out of line much, otherwise I think this is a pretty easy fold against a semi-passive person (which he isn't).

turbulence · #4 09-23-2005, 05:32 AM

I like a preflop raise here too. I don't know what UTG and the button's stats look like but you'll likely get a fold from the button and SB, with UTG and BB checking to you on the flop. You will often take the pot right there with a bet on the flop. It works more often than you might think and it's easy to get away from if it's clear you're beaten.

SackUp · #5 09-23-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise this preflop. isolate the limper or at worst get teh button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I wrong in thinking this is awful advice??? Granted it was no UTG raise, but a UTG limp on a normal player surely isn't gonna be worse than a bad bad QTo on average, is it?? I think aggression gets taken too far here sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Especially when that 58% BB is gonna call anything except a freakin 72 here cuz he's "already invested".

But as it is, I think you can call down if the SB has been out of line much, otherwise I think this is a pretty easy fold against a semi-passive person (which he isn't).

[/ QUOTE ]

What you do with Q10o here depends on a couple factors. 1) What hands will the limper play with from UTG and 2) How much better post flop are you than the limper and anyone else that may come along.

Fools will limp with a pretty broad range of hands and I think I can beat most players up post flop. Also, it gives you control of the hand and will let you get some dead money from the blinds in. In this case we may have folded the sb and have taken down the pot and instead we get nothing now. Also, who cares if the BB is calling. His 53% calling will just add more dead money to the pot. I'm not too worried about him outplaying me postflop.

So yeah it might not be the move for everyone just yet, but you should definitely aim at getting there as it is a +EV move usually. Little preflop aggression tweaks like this have upped my game tremendously in the last few months.

Dagger78 · #6 09-22-2005, 09:31 PM

Most likely, I think folding is pretty safe here. If this is a random person.

Any more of a read on this guy? Is he capable of raising with Qx Clubs? Most people wouldn't raise the turn here unless he has you badly beaten.

BTW are you routinely limping with QT in this spot? Is the one limper already in particularly bad? I'm not sure how profitable this is here.

mtdoak · #7 09-22-2005, 09:42 PM

With an agression of 3 i'm calling down. He could be doing this with a worse queen, in all honesty.

#8 09-23-2005, 05:35 AM

I'm folding preflop.

mtdoak · #9 09-23-2005, 07:09 AM

Intresting, I'm raising preflop

#10 09-24-2005, 03:08 PM

I think calling is the worst option.