50/100 party hand I was sweated on

bicyclekick · #1 09-21-2005, 07:52 PM

50/100 party 8 handed at the time. Haven't played much with villain. He's a 16/8/1.2 or so. Don't recall any hands vs him.

I raise K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] utg, he 3 bets in the CO, all fold, i call.

Flop J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] rainbow, I check/call.

Turn 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check call

River 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check, he thinks for 3 seconds and bets, I ?

ggbman · #2 09-21-2005, 07:56 PM

I personally have no idea. But i'm glad you posted a hand like this, because this exact type of situation is what i feel i'm having a litle trouble adapting to in the 50 game, i never know if they continue to bet worse hands here.

La Brujita · #3 09-21-2005, 07:56 PM

Close one I call. Do you think 9-9 is a decent possiblilty? Would he three bet KQs? Does he check AK behind.

I am wondering now if a fold is better-I call but that might be a leak of mine.

James282 · #4 09-21-2005, 07:56 PM

To the muck.
-James

gonores · #5 09-21-2005, 08:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To the muck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. I'd be much more inclined to muck if he bet in rhythm, but the 3-second wait by this kind of player against BK's kind of player is so often a false false-tell. I'd call and expect to see KQ/AQ 25-50% of the time. I guess I could 99 or even 77 in there too, but AK isn't betting here.

James282 · #6 09-21-2005, 08:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To the muck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. I'd be much more inclined to muck if he bet in rhythm, but the 3-second wait by this kind of player against BK's kind of player is so often a false false-tell. I'd call and expect to see KQ/AQ 25-50% of the time. I guess I could 99 or even 77 in there too, but AK isn't betting here.

[/ QUOTE ]

25-50%? You're in la la land. An 8 pfr isn't even 3 betting KQo here, probably not even KQs. Betting the river, however, is compelling. I still think a check-fold is better than a check-call by a fairly wide margin.
-James

mike l. · #7 09-21-2005, 08:00 PM

the reason you are unsure of what to do on the river here is because you didnt put in more action on an earlier street to better define his hand.

also preflop: i would guess you will get 3 bet too often in this game, so folding preflop is the strongest play. i think youd be better off raising 87s utg if you feel the need to vary your play, or even just gambool up.

ggbman · #8 09-21-2005, 08:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the reason you are unsure of what to do on the river here is because you didnt put in more action on an earlier street to better define his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Defining his hand will cost just as much as check calling down, and we might not even get to showdown. If we check-raise the flop and get 3 bet, or donk the turn and get raised, we are going to put in a similar amount of money without the possibility of improving o seeing showdown. Thus i'm not sure i agree this is a situation where we need to define his hand as much as we need to give ourselves a chance to improve and by the time the river gets there...play poker!

mike l. · #9 09-21-2005, 08:11 PM

i added more to my post.

anyway it's not a very good flop for hero. if a K comes will hero like it a lot? a Q? an A? a 9? this flop is pretty troublesome. what if hero bets each street until raised and then check-folds the next street barring improvement? oh he could bet-fold that turn as well. but let's say he bets the flop and gets raised, he can check-fold the turn. sometimes AK and AQ will take the free card there.

yes im pretty sure that's the way to play this. check-call, check-call just doesnt work here. either you find out youre ahead and make him pay (or put him to the test or give him a free card or whatever) or find out youre beat and dont chase when youre not sure what youre chasing for (classic reverse implied odds disaster time). but dont check-call thus representing AQ and letting him have his way with you. when you do that you have to call the river, and i think you can save a fraction of a bet in there somewhere when you find out youre beat earlier.

bicyclekick · #10 09-21-2005, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the reason you are unsure of what to do on the river here is because you didnt put in more action on an earlier street to better define his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not that unsure, I just think a lot of people misplay this type of hand. I think I put in plenty of money and his betting defined his hand pretty well. The 3 bet, followed by betting every street rules out 99 pretty well, and the only hand I beat is AK and most players with those types of stats aren't good enough or aren't capable of thinking about betting the river with AK and aren't going to very often. His 1.2 aggression makes me think he's not firing it again. I also am almost sure this type of player doesn't 3 bet me there pre-flop with AQ.

I just play so much short-handed I'm used to making mid pair, putting in some action and seeing the showdown, like you talked about. But given this was full table, I was UTG, he was not a monkey, makes the check/call, check/call, check/fold line by far the best IMO. I just didn't want to give it away so early but may as well post my thouhgts I guess.