|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
These two hands are from todays session. Opinions on all streets are appreciated, but my question is really the river value bet, are we good often enough to justify that?
Hand 1: Villian is LP-P over 41 hands Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls. Flop: (10.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button folds, BB calls, MP2 calls. Turn: (9.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls. River: (12.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, MP2 calls. Final Pot: 16.75 BB Hand 2: Villian is super fishy with 79/1/0,3 Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, Button calls. Flop: (8.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, Button calls, BB folds. Turn: (6.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls. River: (8.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls. Final Pot: 12.75 BB |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
Why are you 3 betting the flop in hand 1 with a gutshot?
I probably just call the river raise in hand 2. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
That's a misstake at the time I thought of it as a OESD and that the raise was for value. Looks a bit stupid now. I think it's a call, but quite close to fold.
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
I like the way you played the first hand. I think the value bet is 50/50. The second hand I am folding preflop. But then you played it correct up to the river imo. I 3-bet this river. I think he made trips since I dont think he is playing Qrag.
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
I would three bet the river on hand 2. He is not showing any strength (i.e. 2 pair) before the river, so I don't think he has the boat unless the possible flopped flush scared him off - he could just be calling down with top pair good kicker and hit trips on the river. Oh, and I am folding preflop with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG+1 unless the table is loose and passive. I do like this hand in late position with at least a couple of callers in front of me.
[ QUOTE ] 79/1/0,3 [/ QUOTE ] I REALLY need to start playing at party. I've been clearing a bonus at Poker Rewards and haven't found anyone close to as fishy as this dude. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
Think it was a girl actually, at least the avatar...
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
Hand 1
You can probably raise for value on the river with this one. No one showed much strength on the turn. Your flop three bet might have scared a low two pair like J8 or JT into not betting, but the chance of someone having specifically those hands and them not betting them stronger are not so great. However, for that reason they might have such a hand I don't like your flop 3bet. Another reason I don't like is because you were on an 11:1 draw to a straight and a 15:1 draw to Top Pair which is not so strong on this board. I don't see it to your advantage to knock out players at that point who could potentially pay you off if you connect. I don't think your 3bet would knock out an Ace with middle or bottom pair anyway, so if your ace came in you would either be losing more money to two pair, or you would rather have those players still in to pay you off for your Top Pair 2nd Kicker. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
On the first hand I don't like your 3-bet on the flop. You have a gutshot and 1 overcard. If the T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]comes it puts a 3 flush on board. I think this is a pretty easy fold on the flop.
If we disregard that though I think the river is fine. I don't think you can be to worried about him. Although a call may be good to here because if BB calls you make as much if you only call but lose only one if you're behind. So I guess I changed my mind. I think a call here is better but it's pretty close. Heads up I definitely raise. Hand 2 I don't think I raise here pf. I can't see putting in extra money with JTs. I think the flop it's better to just call and go for overcalls. You're not getting the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to fold so I think your just chasing money out here. On the river I'm re-raising. I think calling is seeing monsters under the bed. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I raise here pf. I can't see putting in extra money with JTs. [/ QUOTE ] Check the action again. And paying 2 isn't the end of the world - JTs plays fine agains a large fied. [ QUOTE ] I think the flop it's better to just call and go for overcalls. You're not getting the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to fold so I think your just chasing money out here. [/ QUOTE ] We'd like them to stay in. In fact, we'd like them to pay us lots of money to stay in. You need to be getting as many bets in the pot as possible on the flop and turn, because a lone A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] isn't calling on the river. Don't slowplay non-nut flushes - they're too vulnerable. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't think I raise here pf. I can't see putting in extra money with JTs. [/ QUOTE ] Check the action again. And paying 2 isn't the end of the world - JTs plays fine agains a large fied. [ QUOTE ] I think the flop it's better to just call and go for overcalls. You're not getting the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to fold so I think your just chasing money out here. [/ QUOTE ] We'd like them to stay in. In fact, we'd like them to pay us lots of money to stay in. You need to be getting as many bets in the pot as possible on the flop and turn, because a lone A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] isn't calling on the river. Don't slowplay non-nut flushes - they're too vulnerable. [/ QUOTE ] OK, I checked the action and I don't see why we want to put in extra money with JTs. I know that the starting charts are meant only as guidelines but they do have you just checking in BB with JTs. Why is this hand any different. I know they play well in a large field. What's your point? OOOOOOPS!!! My humble apologies. I re,re-checked the action. I thought he was on the BB and raised with JTs. As far as not raising your flush, the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is out and you can't get the A or K to fold so how are you protecting your hand by raising? I can see raising for value but with the bettor on your right the only thing your going to do is drive out hopeless hands. Edited to add humble apology |
|
|