question for fellow SSHE readers

Just curious, for those of you who are using preflop selections along the lines of Miller's SSHE charts, are you using the "tight" or "loose" chart? In particular I'm playing Party's .50/$1 ring games, and I lean more toward the tight chart for most tables, using the number of players/flop as my guide. But do any of you have better results using the looser selections, for example, say you have 4 to each flop and they're playing lost of weak and marginal hands. Just looking for people with more time logged in than myself. Thanks.

[aK13]

Most people deviate from the chart by their own standards. As you play more, you should be able to include more hands into your arsenal.

But FWIW, if you can't use the loose chart all the time, you're at a horrible .5/1 table.

[aargh57]

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But FWIW, if you can't use the loose chart all the time, you're at a horrible .5/1 table.

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Really, are they honestly that loose. I can't figure out this point. Let's assume that the blinds never fold and you play 20% of your hands (both just for the sake of argument). That means that you have 2.2 players on average to start. That means you still need 3.8 players on average to get a minimum of 6 players in the hand. Out of 7 people that means that the remaining players need to play 54.3% of there hands. Is .5/1 really that loose? I know 2/4 is rarely even in the 40% range VPIP

[Bankuri]

Sorry, but I almost never see a .50/1 Party table that sees 6 people to the flop occasionally, no less on average.

[stuartharris]

I'll join with others in disagreeing here. While I only play at UB, I almost never see table where half the people consistently see the flop. If I'm lucky enough to find such a table, it doesn't stay that way long. From my experience, even the tight chart is a little too loose. The games I see simply aren't as loose or as bad as the ones generally described in SSH. Play 20-23%, raise half or more of those preflop, and study, study, study postflop play. The book is a goldmine there.

[Bankuri]

Now, while they aren't terribly loose, they are full of players playing really bad hands. Many players play any ace, any pair, and any suited cards if one is ten or higher from any position. And I generally see one person at each table who seems to be playing any two cards. What this amounts to is about 4-5 generally seeing the flop.

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study, study, study postflop play. The book is a goldmine there.

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Thanks for the response guys. I do think that understanding the conceptual strengths of each type of hand makes it possible to tweak any given chart.
And the postflop stuff is definitely key in these games and I would assume even balances times where you may not be making the perfect play preflop. What prompted this post was Miller's suggestions like KXs in "loose" games. Intuitively this just seems too loose for any situation. Is anyone showing profits for hands like KXs?

I'm a "n00b" myself, and am playing microlimits as I read/learn SSHE. It is frustrating to play tightly, but I found that until I knew what I was doing postflop, playing even a little loosely preflop just got me into big trouble. Now that I'm getting better (meaning I have a better handle on how to play post-flop based on the flop and the actions/reads of others), I find that I can play more hands, which is of course less boring.

...plus I now spend my "fold time" more productively, watching my fellow players and trying to identify their mistakes. Huge learning tool!

BTW....KXs all depends on position and what happens up front. Big looser if you play it in the wrong place, or don't lay it down when you should later.

[Greg J]

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I'm a "n00b" myself, and am playing microlimits as I read/learn SSHE. It is frustrating to play tightly, but I found that until I knew what I was doing postflop, playing even a little loosely preflop just got me into big trouble. Now that I'm getting better (meaning I have a better handle on how to play post-flop based on the flop and the actions/reads of others), I find that I can play more hands, which is of course less boring.

...plus I now spend my "fold time" more productively, watching my fellow players and trying to identify their mistakes. Huge learning tool!

BTW....KXs all depends on position and what happens up front. Big looser if you play it in the wrong place, or don't lay it down when you should later.

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This is probably the best second post I've ever read. WTF is wrong with you?!? Why aren't you asking something stupid, or complaining about how you can't beat the bad players? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Guthrie]

Over 35,000 hands .25/.50, .50/1 and 1/2, in BB/100. The first 25,000 hands or so were strictly by the SSHE loose charts. I then started tightening up, mainly in early positions.

KQs 0.06
KJs 0.43
KTs 0.02-
K9s 0.23
K8s 0.17
K7s 0.18
K6s 0.07-
K5s 0.03
K4s 0.17
K3s 0.18-
K2s 0.03