Excellent Advice. Just One Thing . . .

[Poker Cat]

Life can be so unfair.
Where was an author like Ed Miller when I was 26?
To be that smart, so expert at poker -- and be able to explain it so effortlessly, would seem enough of a lucky streak at the genetic lottery. To have wisdom as well? Like I said, not fair.

I almost hate to do this. But there is one point with which I vehemently, savagely, disagree.

If you are in college right now, and find that you are making tons of dough playing poker online, I say QUIT COLLEGE AND PLAY POKER. $50,000 Hummers and $400 hotel rooms are scams, yes. Well guess what -- so is a $300,000 "ijication". College will not improve your social status, "prepare you for working", or even provide much "general knowledge" (and who the hell needs that, anyway?) If you want to socialize, go meet some people for hiking or tennis or whatever. If you want to learn a trade, then go to trade school. Want knowledge? Read a freakin'. You can buy several for 300 grand.

Although Ed is clearly wise for his age, I think this is the one area where his youthful bias shows. Admittedly, social institutions like college seem much more promising to the young. As John Mayer explains, "There's no such thing as the real world -- just a lie you got to rise above."

By the way, if you find yourself in the aforementioned dilemma, how did you learn to play poker? Did you go to Poker College for four years? Took the online course at Poker Tech? Didn't think so. You taught yourself. That's what smart, motivated people have always done. When the next opportunity arises, you'll do it again.

Put down the class list, get online and play. Work, save, buy a house. Read, watch, keep up. You'll do fine.

In case you were wondering, yes, I do have a B.A. in Economics. I've never used it. Make me an offer and it's yours.

[chezlaw]

Where was an author like Ed Miller when you were 26? !!!

Where was online poker when I was at college working 20+ hours a week in a pub for near minimum wage? [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

I wouldn't have missed college for anything but its not either or. College was a breeze, playing nearly full-time whilst at college should not be much of a problem.

chez

[LittleOldLady]

[ QUOTE ]
Life can be so unfair.
Where was an author like Ed Miller when I was 26?
To be that smart, so expert at poker -- and be able to explain it so effortlessly, would seem enough of a lucky streak at the genetic lottery. To have wisdom as well? Like I said, not fair.

I almost hate to do this. But there is one point with which I vehemently, savagely, disagree.

If you are in college right now, and find that you are making tons of dough playing poker online, I say QUIT COLLEGE AND PLAY POKER. $50,000 Hummers and $400 hotel rooms are scams, yes. Well guess what -- so is a $300,000 "ijication". College will not improve your social status, "prepare you for working", or even provide much "general knowledge" (and who the hell needs that, anyway?) If you want to socialize, go meet some people for hiking or tennis or whatever. If you want to learn a trade, then go to trade school. Want knowledge? Read a freakin'. You can buy several for 300 grand.

Although Ed is clearly wise for his age, I think this is the one area where his youthful bias shows. Admittedly, social institutions like college seem much more promising to the young. As John Mayer explains, "There's no such thing as the real world -- just a lie you got to rise above."

By the way, if you find yourself in the aforementioned dilemma, how did you learn to play poker? Did you go to Poker College for four years? Took the online course at Poker Tech? Didn't think so. You taught yourself. That's what smart, motivated people have always done. When the next opportunity arises, you'll do it again.

Put down the class list, get online and play. Work, save, buy a house. Read, watch, keep up. You'll do fine.

In case you were wondering, yes, I do have a B.A. in Economics. I've never used it. Make me an offer and it's yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker Cat,

I just retired from a career teaching in an urban state university. A very large percentage of my students were so-called non-traditional students, that is those well over the usual 18-21 age bracket. I can tell you that for many of them going back to school was a huge struggle. They juggled jobs (sometimes quite responsible and well-paying ones) and family obligations along with their courseloads. Why would they bother to do this if that college education and the degree they were trying to earn weren't all that valuable and worthwhile? One big reason was credentialing. I taught tech writing, and many of my students were self-taught in the computer/IT fields. They had hit a ceiling and were unable to advance without a degree even though they had the expertise for a higher level position. Same was true of students who were "para-engineers"; they had the skills but not the credentials. Others found that they needed/wanted to change fields and needed further education to do so. I think this is going to be relevant to those contemplating dropping out of school to multi-table poker online. That is simply not a life's work. Even if online poker does continue to be popular, lucrative, and quasi-legal (and I think that is a very big if), it is a young folk's job. Sitting in your underpants and playing 8 tables of hold'em is going to get more or less old more or less fast. I think a Plan B is called for, and for most people Plan B would include a college degree. And a college degree is much easier to get when one is 18-21 and without family obligations than when one is 10-15 years or more older.

And, yes, my dear, college will definitely improve your social status--especially if you go to a prestigious one. I have many friends who grew up in working class families who are now happily ensconced in the upper-middle class due to their Ivy League educations. It is, I think, obvious that the single most important factor in raising Bill Clinton's social status was graduating from Yale....Even going to U of A/Little Rock would have boosted his status considerably from the status accrued by his family of origin.

I am definitely with Ed on this--stay in school.

[Peter666]

"I have many friends who grew up in working class families who are now happily ensconced in the upper-middle class due to their Ivy League educations. It is, I think, obvious that the single most important factor in raising Bill Clinton's social status was graduating from Yale"

What a bunch of losers.

It is better to be young and single and get blown by skinny pretty girls than to be an old adulterer and get blown by fat ugly ones like Monica Lewinsky. That, and the fact that the chances of all these "successful" people suffering in Eternal Hell is very great.

PokerCat,

You are smart enough to do whatever the hell you want. If somebody seriously needs to be TOLD on how to manage their life outside of gambling, then things have already failed. You are not one of them. Go forth and prosper.

[LittleOldLady]

[ QUOTE ]
It is better to be young and single and get blown by skinny pretty girls than to be an old adulterer and get blown by fat ugly ones like Monica Lewinsky. That, and the fact that the chances of all these "successful" people suffering in Eternal Hell is very great.



[/ QUOTE ]

Peter666, good luck on staying young and getting blown by pretty skinny girls (since when is skinny pretty, but I digress). With your attitude, in a few years you will be lucky to get blown by anyone you didn't pay.

My point was that 8-tabling in your underpants is a young man's game. Now, you may think that it is better to be young, but the fact of the matter is that the only way to avoid getting older is to die prematurely. Like it or not, you will age, and if you are wise, you will plan your life to cover the entire life cycle. That is where having a good education is indispensable.

I doubt if Bill Clinton is shaking in his boots about the prospect of being consigned to an Eternal Hell which is highly unlikely to exist. If Eternal Hell is the place for old adulterers who get blown by fat, ugly women, Bill will have lots of company....

[Peter666]

"If Eternal Hell is the place for old adulterers who get blown by fat, ugly women, Bill will have lots of company...."

a better alternative is to:

"die prematurely"

My point is that much advice is given from the perspective of people who may hold completely different values, ideas and meanings of life. Unless two people share the same values, most advice is useless.

I learn poker to make money from the convenience of my own home. Stu Ungar played poker to feed his habits. If people want to judge him for it, it is their problem, not his. People can and will choose what they want. What we agree upon is to learn to play the best poker we can.

Also it is easy for people to give advice once they have lots of money or status. But I doubt it was very pleasurable for many of them to attain it. So while it is nice to get advice from well meaning people, they must realize that it will usually go unheeded no matter what. This makes it useless. The view from the trenches is much different from the view of the General.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
So while it is nice to get advice from well meaning people, they must realize that it will usually go unheeded no matter what. This makes it useless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is advice that will USUALLY go unheeded USELESS?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
My point was that 8-tabling in your underpants is a young man's game.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not necessarily true, depending on how you define "young". The initial gaming/computer literate generation is now in their 40's and fully skilled to 8-table. I'm also certain that there are many women who would disagree that its only a "man's" game.

[Python49]

[ QUOTE ]
But compared with other activites, it doesn't compare. It doesn't contribute much to humanity, human knowledge, the general good, etc. It is not totally trivial but not really that deep either. It's a freakin' card game, not quantum mechanics.


[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree wholeheartedly. Poker has opened my eyes to a few things just about life in general. One of the main ones being that to really succeed at something you have to work hard and LEARN abuot what it is that makes other people who do it successful. 5 months ago I only had $50 to my name and found this website. I was the typical player that thought they were good or whatever but really did not know much at all. I then spent countless hours READING everything I could on this website and soaking up AS MUCH KNOWLEDGE as I could. I practiced my game, refined my skills, talked with other successful players and found out what it was that I was doing wrong to correct my play. This is the whole process of LEARNING... and it taught me that to really prosper in something you have to put in the time and be willing to learn, be humble enough to accept criticism from others, and to put to use the stuff you have learned. I feel this carries over with MOSTLY every thing else in life that people want to get good at. The time I spent researching, reading, practicing, all was a learning process and I feel like I am 30x more knowledgable about this than I was 5 months ago, and the growth in my bankroll has proven this to be true. Now how does this help in other aspects of life? Well think about it, anything that people become great at what do they do? They follow a similar process. If you want to be great at investing you have to fill your brain with as much knowledge as possible. Learn as much as you can about it and even talk to other people whom are successful at it just like in poker. You then have to learn on your own through trial and error, read books, etc. This is the same process by which people learn.

I can tell you first hand this is not the learning process that has gotten me through school on great academics.. and the average student in college is not "learning" either, they are just doing what they can to get by. Granted, some kids actually are smart enough to understand what it means to learn... alot of people getting those college degrees can get one and not be able to tell you diddly squat about what they learned in their courses. Ive always gotten great marks in school and never really truly felt like I learned a DAMNED thing. Im here on academic scholarship and barely study, all I do is study the night before exams and get the A, this is not true learning... this is just memorization of facts.

I feel like poker for me was a true learning process... and I feel like I could really teach alot because I understand the principles of the game and it is knowledge I have obtained. This same learning process like I said can be applied to plenty of stuff.. learning how to invest, play basketball, gain muscle mass through weight lifting, program computers, etc. I guess what i'm saying is that poker has taught me how to teach myself... i now am beginning to embark on a learning process relating to investing where I will put forth the same time investment in gaining knowledge that I did with poker, read books, read forums online, talk with other successful people in it, and make smart decisions along the way. I feel like ive learned now what kind of effort it really takes to learn something and have success at it. This was not something I feel is taught in college since they deem success based on a score on a test and there are many ways to achieve that high mark without actually learning it for yourself and sustaining the knowledge. I took english literature last semester.... got an A.. i don't remember a damned thing about the class, but if you asked me to explain certain principles in poker such as expected value, standard deviation, variance, bankroll management, I could probably write essays on the topics.

[BillC]

I agree that playing poker full time is a young man's game (or for retirees). I have the freedom to play a lot of poker b/c of my flexible academic hours. But I don't. It is too tedious and boring. I do like poker but not full time. I like poker theory too. But compared with other activites, it doesn't compare. It doesn't contribute much to humanity, human knowledge, the general good, etc. It is not totally trivial but not really that deep either. It's a freakin' card game, not quantum mechanics.

If you are a really bright kid, why not just get an advanced degree that will pay a good and stable income. Just get an MBA, medical or law degree. If you want ot be a bum, just get a Ph.D. and play poker on the side. What is the big deal?