Common overpair situation

Ghazban · #1 09-15-2005, 07:42 PM

With no reads, what do you do here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

UTG ($207)
MP ($2638.99)
Hero ($400)
Button ($368.68)
SB ($387.80)
BB ($328.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, MP calls $4, Hero raises to $16, Button calls $16, 2 folds, MP calls $12.

Flop: ($54) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $50, button raises to $150, MP folds, Hero?

djoyce003 · #2 09-15-2005, 07:46 PM

without a read, I fold this time. If I see him pull this over and over, then I figure he's doing it with top pair, here I gotta figure he's doing it with 2 pair at least, a set as well. this time it could be a draw, but you could also be drawing to 2 outs.

meleader2 · #3 09-15-2005, 07:46 PM

i don't see him calling 16$ preflop with AJo. i'd let it go.

unless, of course, this is one of your posts where you are pretending to be the villain and are doing this move with AK of clubs...

meleader2 · #4 09-15-2005, 07:48 PM

he could most certainly have KK, but i wouldn't be willing to put my money in like this.

Ghazban · #5 09-15-2005, 07:49 PM

Well, that's the point isn't it? On a board like this, a hand like KQ (clubs or not) or AK/AQ of clubs will almost certainly make this exact raise. QQ/KK also might raise here.

meleader2 · #6 09-15-2005, 07:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, that's the point isn't it? On a board like this, a hand like KQ (clubs or not) or AK/AQ of clubs will almost certainly make this exact raise. QQ/KK also might raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

well if your question is to push or fold, i would still fold. with a read, i'd push if the read was flush draw. you bet 50$, and he makes it an additional 100$? grossly defining his hand for you IMO.

Ghazban · #7 09-15-2005, 08:00 PM

Villain in this hand is decent and a thinking player. I'm just posting this to show how easy it can be to push around a thinking player. He claimed to have folded QQ.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 max, 4 handed) converter

UTG ($2623.29)
Hero ($428.90)
SB ($411.50)
BB ($65.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
UTG raises to $15, Hero calls $15, 2 folds.

Flop: ($36) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $20, Hero raises to $65, UTG calls $45.

Turn: ($166) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $120, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $286

gol4pro · #8 09-15-2005, 08:03 PM

Nothing better to do than push thinking players when you pick of a CB and you have position on them.

As for hand 1, with no read, I fold. This is SA/WB

Macquarie · #9 09-15-2005, 08:08 PM

I agree with what you're saying - I often feel that especially out of position, I have to fold overpairs to any sort of agression. But that aggression could just be someone who thinks i made a continuation bet having missed my overcards.

Some sessions it seems like every time I hit top pair or have an overpair someone raises or checkraises me, and I hate those decisions.

Seems from previous posts that in that situation you just have to take an educated guess as to how likely villain is to be on a draw, and then play on or fold accordingly. I'm having real trouble with this at the moment.

Maybe this all just shows the power of raising with a draw?

Ghazban · #10 09-15-2005, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this all just shows the power of raising with a draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is definitely true and one of the reasons I raise with draws (another is that some people at the table don't understand it and will pay you off all session as they'll think you're drawing every time you raise).

From my one day in the 2/4, I've noticed a lot more aggression overall so I think I can't always just fold as it will be a draw a higher percentage of the time than in the 1/2.