QQ in BB, capped 4 way pot

Mathieu · #1 09-13-2005, 07:59 PM

Here I have 2 questions:

1) Is it correct to cap in this spot, or is it better to wait to check raise a safe flop?

2) If you cap, how will you proceed with the following flop? What's your course of action?

Reads:

UTG (preflop raiser)is a TAG. I have more than 1000 hands on him and his range here is roughly (99-AA, KQ and up, KJs, ATs). He plays solid post flop.

CO (preflop 3 bettor) is unknown, it's the first pot that he enters voluntarily after ~10 hands.

BTN is LAG and has only 6 BBs left.

ASF is 38%

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 5 folds, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero caps, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)

@bsolute_luck · #2 09-13-2005, 08:01 PM

B-E-A-utiful cap. and not a horrible flop by any means. i'm betting that junk. SCHWEEET!

Mathieu · #3 09-13-2005, 08:19 PM

OK I guess we can't worry about things before they happen. So ..

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 5 folds, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero caps, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, CO raises, Button folds, Hero ..

Now what's the plan? There are 20.5 SB in the pot.

Arcturus · #4 09-13-2005, 08:34 PM

You have to determine the range of hands the CO might have and which ones you can beat. Since you have no real reads on him, he could have a number of hands.

In any case, you can't really fold. The pot is too large and you may have the best hand. You should at least call down.

Mathieu · #5 09-13-2005, 08:52 PM

I agree that folding is out of the question here. 3 betting for value is probably not a good idea because I think I am behind CO's range of hands at this point. 3 betting to push out utg (TAG) is unlikely to work as he will be getting about 11 to 1. Unless I can get him to think he is drawing to at most 3 outs, I doubt he folds a six outer like AK. Right?

I don't like the turn check raise to protect my hand as I think I am way behind too many of CO's hands. AA, KK, TT all beat me and JJ and 99 are not in such bad shape. Also, most of the hands that I beat, AsKs or maybe AK, will probably take a free card on the turn.

So it looks like I am behind, and for the cases where I am still ahead, I can't really protect my hand profitably.

Should I just call down from that point on?

silkyslim · #6 09-13-2005, 08:53 PM

3-bet flop to try and get UTG out. Call down from a cap, otherwise bet/call turn

#7 09-13-2005, 08:56 PM

I would 3-bet this flop. UTG could potentially be on a decent range of hands that you beat, and since you don't know much about the CO, he could be on a decent range as well, he might have AK, JJ, etc.. If it gets capped then you have some bad news.

#8 09-13-2005, 09:56 PM

I'm interested in the reasoning. My 2c read is: We've got UTG beat at this point. The chance that CO has us beat is slim, but he is not going anywhere. Chances are both villians share some outs if we're ahead.

Does Hero still 3 bet, maybe driving out UTG, knowing he is either called or raised by CO?

I don't know. But I'd like to.

I can't see any cards hitting UTG, that aren't going to hit CO, if we aren't already beat. Plus we can't put CO on a hand, the range is too great (he doesn't have the same information about UTG that we do - he's only been there 10 hands). I'm struggling with the 3 bet option.

kirkt · #9 09-13-2005, 10:44 PM

A cap is warranted preflop. This hand doesn't need to improve to show its teeth.

Your flop bet is good and UTG calls. He probably has AK or a hand you easily beat. He might be sandbagging pocket Ts. The raise from late position indicates probably AT, AK, JJ or better. We still beat many of these hands and I want to force UTG to fold. Reraise.

Mathieu · #10 09-14-2005, 12:48 AM

If utg folds AK to a reraise getting ~11-1, reraising is probably worth it since it gives us 6 safe cards if CO has JJ or 99.

The problem is that utg is getting good odds, and even if he is tight, I don't think he will fold if he has A or K of spade for the bdfd. In the heat of the action he might fold a spadeless AK if he discounts his outs or suspect he is against a much better hand.

If utg was looser post flop, the best line would be to call down since I think we are not ahead of CO's range of hands here. I certainly don't want to play any line that involves a big laydown vs CO since he is unknown.