Fun with gutshots

[pergesu]

***** Hand History for Game 2672037126 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:15536143 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Wednesday, September 07, 19:23:49 EDT 2005
Table Table 12920 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: Tquila90 ( $390 )
Seat 2: Blonde_D ( $2345 )
Seat 3: hendrixgod ( $1395 )
Seat 4: Renew5 ( $505 )
Seat 5: grampy1956 ( $880 )
Seat 7: Cordill ( $950 )
Seat 9: pattywack85 ( $775 )
Seat 10: markofzero ( $760 )
Trny:15536143 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
There is no Small Blind in this hand as the Big Blind of the previous hand left the table.
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to pattywack85 [ 7h 6s ]
markofzero folds.
Tquila90 folds.
Blonde_D folds.
hendrixgod raises [100].
Renew5 folds.
grampy1956 folds.
Cordill folds.
pattywack85 calls [70].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, 3h, Qs ]
pattywack85 checks.
hendrixgod bets [175].
pattywack85 calls [175].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
pattywack85 bets [225].
hendrixgod folds.
pattywack85 does not show cards.
pattywack85 wins 775 chips

[GtrHtr]

playing the $11s? Welcome to hell.

[durron597]

With a read, fine, without a read, I don't like it. Against an unknown $11er, I think this is pure spew, the guys who bet the flop with AK in the $11s can't fold it even when they miss, and also the typical $11er isn't folding JJ here either.

[J-Lo]

they won't fold 8 high!!!! u lose to 8 high!!!

[Jman28]

I like that you're thinking creatively, and I think (from just a few posts I've read) that you are on your way to becoming a a very good player.

That said, I hate this play. Calling preflop for 70 more, out of position, with a drawing hand is no good.

Then you check-call a very large bet on a gutshot. (With the intention of betting most turns?)

While it's always good to think outside the box, you are playing the $11s. Many people don't remember the very important fact that you profit from your opponents mistakes. You should play in a way that takes advantage of the mistakes they make.

Early in $11s, the mistakes made by most are calling, betting, and raising too much with weak hands. By bluffing, you almost make them play correctly. To take advantage of their mistakes, you need to nut-peddle. I know it's boring, but it's just the way it is.

When you find an opponent that continuation bets every time, and folds too many hands to a turn bet after being called, you have found a good play here.

Always remember that you gain from their leaks, and that you need to exploit them. Sometimes they will be hard to find/exploit. I played with a guy the other day who was a very good, aggressive player, but 'value' bet/raised marginal hands on the river when he could've just checked an showed down, even on scary boards. To take advantage of him, you could call more draws on the turn and flop because of implied odds, and you could check-raise or 3-bet the river.

But yeah, wait till you have a better read for this play (and are playing at higher levels). Also, leave out him folding when you post to get a better response.

[pergesu]

Here was my thought process.

Preflop: I'm getting 2-1, I've got live cards, I have a good idea of his range (AT+, KJ+). I feel that I can outplay him on the flop - so I like the favorable pot odds.

On the flop: I don't think he has a piece of that at all. I'm betting the turn if it's not a A, K, or J.

Turn: Safe card, lead out and take the pot.

The fact that I had a gutshot doesn't even matter. I'll make the play with any two cards, as long as I don't see an A/K/J turn.

[applejuicekid]

[ QUOTE ]
have a good idea of his range (AT+, KJ+)

[/ QUOTE ]

He will never have a pocket pair here?

[pergesu]

Sure, but I think a lot of players will either raise smaller or larger with a big pocket pair, and generally limp with 88 or less. So the only pocket pairs I think he's likely to hold are TT and 99. The chances of him having unpaired broadways are a lot higher than of him holding TT or 99.

[HighestCard]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of players will either raise smaller or larger with a big pocket pair, and generally limp with 88 or less.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your completly wrong in your assesment here. 11 players limp with AA, or min raise more than rasing large. They raise 3x the BB with hands like 44-10,10 more than limping.

[ QUOTE ]
Here was my thought process.

Preflop: I'm getting 2-1, I've got live cards, I have a good idea of his range (AT+, KJ+). I feel that I can outplay him on the flop - so I like the favorable pot odds.

On the flop: I don't think he has a piece of that at all. I'm betting the turn if it's not a A, K, or J.

Turn: Safe card, lead out and take the pot.

The fact that I had a gutshot doesn't even matter. I'll make the play with any two cards, as long as I don't see an A/K/J turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you put him on any two broadway cards(not incorrectly, in my opinion), why do you assume the flop missed him. I could see this at a higher buyin if no face cards flopped, but not at an 11 with the queen.

I also don't making that large call on the flop if you only intend to make the raise some of the time....if any face card hits you're screwed, and he may have the queen. I don't know the math off hand, but the risk/reward must be -EV. (maybe there's something I'm missing)

Overall, this seems much too complicated for an 11...although I do use moves like this in ring games with people I know well, and it works wonders.