Nut flush on paired board

restless · #1 09-07-2005, 09:12 AM

Ok, I'm pretty new to 2/4 (200 hands...) so I guess I'm questioning my plays and analysing a lot more than usual. I also find 2/4 quite different from 1/2, hence my insecurity.

MP2 - Tight/Weak
CO - Ultra Loose (~90%). Not much PF raising. Calls ANY bets with ANY piece of the board. Regardless of previous action and board texture. Only raises with strong hands, cannot fold 2:nd best hands.
Button - S-LA, decent postflop.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

I raise because I know that CO will call. I'm not impressed by MP2's openlimp. I fully expect this to be a multiway pot.

Flop: (12 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button caps, Hero calls, CO calls.

hmm, I keep raising because I may very well have a pot equity edge here. I'm happy to put bets in as long as CO comes along to pad the pot.

Turn: (12 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Button calls, Hero calls.

No need to get fancy here right? CO raises wich means he can beat top pair. Button goes into call-down mode?

River: (24 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

ugh, this is where I start to feel uneasy. I do not want to get into a raising war with a paired board. KK is unlikely / impossible for Button, but TT is slightly possible. I decide to show this down as cheap as possible. I really have no clue how I should respond if I have to face 2 cold with a great risk of it getting capped afterwards.

Final Pot: 27 BB

Wise move or was I too defensive on the river?
Any other comments bout my play or reasoning behind it?

Petteri · #2 09-07-2005, 09:32 AM

I think CO has flush. He called flop and went to war when third diamond hit. I think best line for river is bet-call.

sean c · #3 09-07-2005, 10:05 AM

The flop three bet depends on how clean your non flush outs are with just the flush outs your equity edge is so slim I don't really like three betting here OOP. I would bet/call the river.

Nick Royale · #4 09-07-2005, 10:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The flop three bet depends on how clean your non flush outs are with just the flush outs your equity edge is so slim I don't really like three betting here OOP. I would bet/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Having 2nd pair TP we might even have the best hand. And our trip/2-pair outs is easily enough to 3-bet this 3-ways on the flop.

sean c · #5 09-07-2005, 10:13 AM

Also your thinking behind the pre flop raise is a little flawed your raising because you have a strong hand if you happen to isolate mister weak/tight limper or a bunch of people come along its okay either way.

RiverTheNuts · #6 09-07-2005, 10:14 AM

A calling station turns into a raising station after the 3rd diamond hits??

I check/raise this river dood... that way maniac puts in a bet thinking hes ahead, button gives the old desperation I hope my KT is good call and you can pop them with another one... Button has KT and CO has a junky flush.. I think theres still value here, crying call a 3 bet

sean c · #7 09-07-2005, 10:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A calling station turns into a raising station after the 3rd diamond hits??

I check/raise this river dood... that way maniac puts in a bet thinking hes ahead, button gives the old desperation I hope my KT is good call and you can pop them with another one... Button has KT and CO has a junky flush.. I think theres still value here, crying call a 3 bet

[/ QUOTE ]

And what if weak tighty checks the paired board through. It does not look like the third player is going anywhere.

RiverTheNuts · #8 09-07-2005, 10:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A calling station turns into a raising station after the 3rd diamond hits??

I check/raise this river dood... that way maniac puts in a bet thinking hes ahead, button gives the old desperation I hope my KT is good call and you can pop them with another one... Button has KT and CO has a junky flush.. I think theres still value here, crying call a 3 bet

[/ QUOTE ]

And what if weak tighty checks the paired board through. It does not look like the third player is going anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weak tighty just called a cap on the flop, bet the cap on the turn, I dont think he's checking, but what do I know, maybe you're right

sean c · #9 09-07-2005, 10:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A calling station turns into a raising station after the 3rd diamond hits??

I check/raise this river dood... that way maniac puts in a bet thinking hes ahead, button gives the old desperation I hope my KT is good call and you can pop them with another one... Button has KT and CO has a junky flush.. I think theres still value here, crying call a 3 bet

[/ QUOTE ]

And what if weak tighty checks the paired board through. It does not look like the third player is going anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weak tighty just called a cap on the flop, bet the cap on the turn, I dont think he's checking, but what do I know, maybe you're right

[/ QUOTE ]

If weak tighty has a second best flush the board pairing is pretty scary to him. So if you bet it is likely he calls with a worse flush and the button will still overcall if he raises there is a possibility the button will again overcall but maybe fold. If you check/raise its possible to trap button for a bet or two but having the river check through here is a pretty big risk.

JerseyTom · #10 09-07-2005, 11:31 AM

CO will show a lesser flush here a huge % of the time, so I think a river C/R is perect. If CO were slowplaying a flopped set of some sort, he'd call/cap the flop if he had a brain (but I'm not giving him a set on this flop given the action and the fact that only TT makes sense and 2 T's are already in play). I also think CO may not put you on diamonds with your flop bet/3-bet.

Button is desperately calling with his KT here or whatever, and will call 1 from CO and then possibly overcall again.

Tom