bottom two check up

cnfuzzd · #1 09-07-2005, 04:35 AM

doing a quick check up of some hands. No real reads here as i hadnt been here very long.looks like a fairly average table.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP calls, CO calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls, SB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP folds, CO calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

peace

john nickle

kurosh · #2 09-07-2005, 04:42 AM

I cap the flop.

billyjex · #3 09-07-2005, 04:44 AM

i just go ahead and cap the flop. you can put pressure on MP and CO to call two cold once again (while they called the same amount getting worse odds, sometimes people "get the point" that they are behind and fold. if they still want to call with their gutshots/weak pairs, then let them make a big mistake.)

I don't like slowing down on the flop, SB could very well be pumping a draw or getting silly with top pair. If you cap and he leads into you, you can start calling down.

nice river bet, i suppose that would be a very painful fold to a raise.

mute · #4 09-07-2005, 04:53 AM

I like it, assuming you were planning to raise a safe turn. Once it's 3bet you have no chance of protecting your hand, and there are so amny bad cards, that can come on the turn.

Bet/folding the river looks good too.

Surfbullet · #5 09-07-2005, 05:04 AM

I like waiting for the turn to raise again. If that was your intent the hand looks fine.

Surf

cnfuzzd · #6 09-07-2005, 05:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like waiting for the turn to raise again. If that was your intent the hand looks fine.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

it was.

peace

john nickle

deepsquat · #7 09-07-2005, 05:19 AM

If Sb bet the Ace turn and we raise whats our plan if 3bet?

Surfbullet · #8 09-07-2005, 01:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If Sb bet the Ace turn and we raise whats our plan if 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against your average 5/10er I'd call and fold the river UI. If he 3bets us after that flop action I think we are looking at a set or better 2 pair nearly always, but we've got odds to fill up.

However, worrying about a 3bet is not a good reason to just call - 4betting the flop makes our 2 opponents have to call 2sb more in a 17SB-19SB pot... getting 8.5:1-9.5:1 they have correct odds to call with just about anything, including a gutshot since they figure to make at least 2BB from us on the big streets.

If we call and raise a safe turn then they are faced with calling 2 BB in a 11.5-13.5 BB pot, getting 5.5 or 6.5 to 1 where a gutshot will have to call incorrectly. Additionally driving out a 1 pair hand is good because they will be getting odds to draw to a 5 outer if we do not raise the turn.

As you mention in your other post, any heart, 6, 8, 9, or T is a bad card. Specifically because there are so many bad cards waiting for the turn becomes more appealing. Our equity will jump on a safe card, perhaps as much as doubling.

It would seem highly likely that one of our opponents is on a flush draw - if so, we charge them extra with the turn raise since they will certainly not fold. Ditto OESD. They are getting correct odds but we make $$ on each extra bet that goes in.

Surf

jgorham · #9 09-07-2005, 06:05 AM

Yeah this example is very similar to the "two overpair hands" section in SSHE. Waiting for the turn to reraise is far and away the better play here, as your equity will change dramatically based on what that card is. Besides that, you know none of your opponents are folding for 2 more on the flop, so wait to the turn to put it to em.

jason_t · #10 09-07-2005, 06:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah this example is very similar to the "two overpair hands" section in SSHE. Waiting for the turn to reraise is far and away the better play here, as your equity will change dramatically based on what that card is. Besides that, you know none of your opponents are folding for 2 more on the flop, so wait to the turn to put it to em.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference between this hand and this oft-cited example (in my opinion, most of the times it is cited it is not appropriate to) is that the pot is not large.