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The Truth · #1 09-04-2005, 01:09 AM

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Villian is 61/13/1

bender · #2 09-04-2005, 01:25 AM

tough to ply it any differnelty. I don't mind checking the turn at all though.

Subfallen · #3 09-04-2005, 03:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
tough to ply it any differnelty. I don't mind checking the turn at all though.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?? Why is it tough to find absolutely no value in a river bet??

mike l. · #4 09-04-2005, 01:31 AM

so i guess you dont like money? because when a loose passive is coming back at you on the river like that it's all over.

James282 · #5 09-04-2005, 01:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
so i guess you dont like money? because when a loose passive is coming back at you on the river like that it's all over.

[/ QUOTE ]

He isn't a loose passive. Having an aggro 1 factor with 61 vpip is very aggressive. That said, not much value in a bet on the river here IMO.
-James

mike l. · #6 09-04-2005, 02:29 AM

"Having an aggro 1 factor with 61 vpip is very aggressive"

boy im sure confused. can you explain it to me again please. i sort of understand the af but how is 1 high if he's 61 vpip? thanks, mike

surfdoc · #7 09-04-2005, 02:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"Having an aggro 1 factor with 61 vpip is very aggressive"

boy im sure confused. can you explain it to me again please. i sort of understand the af but how is 1 high if he's 61 vpip? thanks, mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mike,

Think about it this way. If you played 60% of your hands the overall quality is so low that how often are YOU going to be able to put in bets and raises. Not very often. So when the VPIP gets really high, the AF will tend to be lower since there are so many times you will completely whiff.

James282 · #8 09-04-2005, 10:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Having an aggro 1 factor with 61 vpip is very aggressive"

boy im sure confused. can you explain it to me again please. i sort of understand the af but how is 1 high if he's 61 vpip? thanks, mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mike,

Think about it this way. If you played 60% of your hands the overall quality is so low that how often are YOU going to be able to put in bets and raises. Not very often. So when the VPIP gets really high, the AF will tend to be lower since there are so many times you will completely whiff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said, exactly. This is why you shouldn't be freaked out by a guy who is VPIP 11 and aggro factor like 3.5. It's easy to be aggressive when you have an overpair almost every time. But if you're vpip is 5 times higher than this guy and you still have an AF of 1 - you must be in there jamming bottom pair, gutshots, etc. This is one reason I generally try not to use aggression factor as a reliable metric for hand reading, as not only can numbers be misleading, people find the stupidest times to be aggressive or passive.
-James

mike l. · #9 09-04-2005, 04:53 PM

ok so since i seem to see quite a few 40-60 vpips in the games i play in what would a passive AF be for those guys?

KidPokerX · #10 09-04-2005, 09:19 PM

surfdoc-
good point, i never really saw it that way.
My assumption, and maybe Mike's as well, was that a typical player with a vpip% of 60 has the tendencies to play very loose post-flop as well. Many of these players find that being aggressive post-flop is the only way to continue their fix.