K9s on the button

Aces McGee · #1 08-31-2005, 11:33 AM

Hi all...I've been making more hand posts than hand responses lately. I apologize for that, but this is a hand that I played last night that could generate some interesting discussion (I think).

Party 3/6. No reads that I can think of as of now (don't have any notes with me).

Four limpers to me on the button and I call with the Ks9s. The SB raises, BB and limpers call and I call. 7 to the flop.

Kh Qd 8s. SB bets, BB folds, and UTG+1 raises next up. It's folded to me. I call, as does the SB.

Turn is 2s. SB checks, UTG+1 bets, I raise.

Comments on flop and turn appreciated. Thanks.

-McGee

sean c · #2 08-31-2005, 11:43 AM

I will leave the flop to others. I hate folding but your not closing the action and would guess your drawing pretty slim. I do hate the turn raise if you think your folding a better hand here your crazy.

chief444 · #3 08-31-2005, 12:05 PM

Sure. The flop is a tough one to fold with so much money in the middle. When SB just calls and UTG bets again and you picked up the flush draw raising seems pretty standard to me.

sean c · #4 08-31-2005, 12:07 PM

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Sure. The flop is a tough one to fold with so much money in the middle. When SB just calls and UTG bets again and you picked up the flush draw raising seems pretty standard to me.

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Why?

lozen · #5 08-31-2005, 12:29 PM

Because you have added more outs and your top pair could still be good as the BB could be on an open ended draw. Myself I would just call but...

peterchi · #6 08-31-2005, 12:41 PM

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When SB just calls and UTG bets again and you picked up the flush draw raising seems pretty standard to me.

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I don't agree with this but maybe I'm missing something.

I think we're almost certainly behind to UTG+1, who raised into the whole field and then bet out the turn.

We have a ton of outs but no fold equity, and possibly might not even get a free showdown.

I'd like to just call. But my ears are still open.

chief444 · #7 08-31-2005, 01:43 PM

You're reading a lot into UTG+1's flop raise acting right after SB IMO. This could very well be another weak K or even a Q and sometimes a draw. Depending on the river I very well may take a free showdown if given the opportunity but I think you're reading a lot more than you should into one flop raise. Also, as Rico pointed out there are some hands SB may hold that we really like to fold out here.

sean c · #8 08-31-2005, 01:51 PM

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You're reading a lot into UTG+1's flop raise acting right after SB IMO. This could very well be another weak K or even a Q and sometimes a draw. Depending on the river I very well may take a free showdown if given the opportunity but I think you're reading a lot more than you should into one flop raise. Also, as Rico pointed out there are some hands SB may hold that we really like to fold out here.

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Your probably correct UTG+1 flop raise shouldn't have us seeing monsters we probably have some fold equity and are going to put two more BB's into this pot anyway. The down side to this is getting three bet by either player. What would your river play be UI? I guess the question becomes how often do we get three bet vs get a free show down.

chief444 · #9 08-31-2005, 01:55 PM

If you get 3-bet you can fold the river unimproved without hesitation IMO. Worse hands arean't 3-betting here. I don't think we get 3-bet often here.

peterchi · #10 08-31-2005, 02:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You're reading a lot into UTG+1's flop raise acting right after SB IMO. This could very well be another weak K or even a Q and sometimes a draw. Depending on the river I very well may take a free showdown if given the opportunity but I think you're reading a lot more than you should into one flop raise. Also, as Rico pointed out there are some hands SB may hold that we really like to fold out here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why don't we 3-bet this flop then?