New Dog -Man Question

David Sklansky · #1 08-30-2005, 05:36 AM

Actually almost the same question as far as I'm concerned. But I have to change it to avoid the silly, off the subject, responses.

You have in your hand a medicine that will degrade so fast that the only two beings you can reach in time to save from death is the puppy of a guy you never met three houses down (which will be completely cured), or a neighbor who you have also never met who will only live an extra twenty four hours even with the medicine. After which you will leave town for good and never be associated with your choice.

Are there good arguments to save the puppy? If so would any pass muster by any religion? Would you save it even if there aren't any good arguments?

I AM GOING SOMEWHERE WITH THIS.

sexdrugsmoney · #2 08-30-2005, 05:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually almost the same question as far as I'm concerned. But I have to change it to avoid the silly, off the subject, responses.

You have in your hand a medicine that will degrade so fast that the only two beings you can reach in time to save from death is the puppy of a guy you never met three houses down (which will be completely cured), or a neighbor who you have also never met who will only live an extra twenty four hours even with the medicine. After which you will leave town for good and never be associated with your choice.

Are there good arguments to save the puppy? If so would any pass muster by any religion? Would you save it even if there aren't any good arguments?

I AM GOING SOMEWHERE WITH THIS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I save the human, because I'm South Korean and I'm hungry. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

AlphaWice · #3 08-30-2005, 05:44 AM

Skip the story. I would phrase it like this.

You have the option to save either a dog for life, or an average, american citizen for 24 hours. Everyone except you are unaware of your choice. Are there good arguments to save the dog?

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I choose to save the dog, and here is why. In the choice, we are basically comparing a very small duration of human life versus a much larger duration of dog-life.

The value that the owner of the puppy gets over the duration of the dog-life, I *think* is much larger than the value that the man gets over his one extra day.

Furthermore, the neighbor is already useless if he will only live an extra day. What could he possibly accomplish in one day that he hasn't already?

sexdrugsmoney · #4 08-30-2005, 05:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Skip the story. I would phrase it like this.

You have the option to save either a dog for life, or an average, american citizen for 24 hours.

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Why does nationality have to come into this?

A human is a human, be it a citizen of the US, Africa, Argentina, or South Korea.

[ QUOTE ]

I choose to save the dog, and here is why. In the choice, we are basically comparing a very small duration of human life versus a much larger duration of dog-life.

The value that the owner of the puppy gets over the duration of the dog-life, I *think* is much larger than the value that the man gets over his one extra day.

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*scoff*

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Furthermore, the neighbor is already useless if he will only live an extra day. What could he possibly accomplish in one day that he hasn't already?

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Uh, maybe he could spend that day with his family, tell them how much loves them? Sort out his affairs in this world and maybe even contemplate his affairs in the next?

Amazed,
SDM

The Dude · #5 08-30-2005, 05:52 AM

I agree with your entire post.

AlphaWice · #6 08-30-2005, 06:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Skip the story. I would phrase it like this.

You have the option to save either a dog for life, or an average, american citizen for 24 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does nationality have to come into this?

A human is a human, be it a citizen of the US, Africa, Argentina, or South Korea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then others would've made the argument that, say, some diseased human in a very poor country would rather die, or that somehow the value of their life (given their quality of life) is less.

Furthermore, the story implies that it is in America, or atleast an industrialized nation. Where else would "your neighbor" own a domesticated dog?

I'd like to also point out that I am from Canada.

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I would also like to point out that I don't even like animals either, and yet I still choose the puppy. I don't even think it's that hard of a choice.

sexdrugsmoney · #7 08-30-2005, 06:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Skip the story. I would phrase it like this.

You have the option to save either a dog for life, or an average, american citizen for 24 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does nationality have to come into this?

A human is a human, be it a citizen of the US, Africa, Argentina, or South Korea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then others would've made the argument that, say, some diseased human in a very poor country would rather die, or that somehow the value of their life (given their quality of life) is less.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are dying anyway with or without the medication.

All you are buying with the medication is time, you are paying for their last day on earth and it is virtually free (technically it is at the expense of a puppy but that somehow seems hypocritical to even bring up unless you are a vegan)

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Furthermore, the story implies that it is in America, or atleast an industrialized nation. Where else would "your neighbor" own a domesticated dog?

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Columbia people have dogs, just like in most of south america.

Shocking huh? Who would've thought those backwards dirt poor latinos that occupy that large mineral rich region would have any sort of 'civilization', here I thought their only role was to export all their minerals and manual labour for the benefit of their northern neighbours ... go figure! [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Also there's ... what's that place called, oh yeah Europe, I hear they have neighbours and dogs. (German Shepard, Dobermann etc)

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I'd like to also point out that I am from Canada.

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Did you go to an American school though? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] (j/k)

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I would also like to point out that I don't even like animals either, and yet I still choose the puppy. I don't even think it's that hard of a choice.

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Ever heard of the food chain?

I hope I haven't caused offence by my tone, I am just honestly amazed this is even an issue.

Dogs get killed everyday. In South Korea dogs are bread and eaten.

We eat tons of animals and animal by products on a weekly basis, some of those animals have a shitty life from the get go (caged chickens) others are killed in a way that is unpleasant for us to witness. (cows - slaughterhouse or kosher/halal)

Human beings got to the top of the food chain by killing animals, it's what we do.

Whether you believe in the Garden of Eden, Evolution, or else, no one is disupting the first clothes a human made was the skin of an animal.

I love animals, greatly, but they are beneath us.

That doesn't mean their life isn't worth "anything" and it doesn't mean you can choose to treat them disrespectfully. (people who abuse animals deserve the [censored] kicked out of them to see what it feels like)

But it does mean that when the chips are down, a human's life is worth more than an animals.

If anybody disagrees with that, they are either stupid and/or a hypocrite.

Sincerely,
SDM

AlphaWice · #8 08-30-2005, 07:53 AM

I will not bother with your useless flame. Here is what I dispute.

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But it does mean that when the chips are down, a human's life is worth more than an animals.

If anybody disagrees with that, they are either stupid and/or a hypocrite.

Sincerely,
SDM

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In this example, we have chosen a day (86400 seconds) of human life to be compared to the life of a dog. <font color="blue"> Answer me this: What is the least x, for which you will still trade x seconds of human life for the life of a dog? </font>

I find your reply that "anyone who disagrees is stupid" to be rediculous. Also, your "food chain" argument is fallacious. Just because humans eat (among other things) dogs, doesn't mean that a dogs life is above a humans life.

When I made my claim that saving the dog was what I would do, I didn't make the claim that it was the "right" choice absolutely. OTOH, you claim that anyone who chooses the dog is "stupid", even though the evidence to support the choice of the human is not clear yet. Why don't we discuss the issue further?

EDIT: Another fact that you have not considered, is that we are not weighing the life of an animal alone. There is also the value that the owner of the dog gets from the dog.

wmspringer · #9 08-30-2005, 08:52 PM

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Whether you believe in the Garden of Eden, Evolution, or else, no one is disupting the first clothes a human made was the skin of an animal.

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Gee, that must be why Genesis 3:7 says "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

housenuts · #10 08-31-2005, 06:31 AM

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Uh, maybe he could spend that day with his family, tell them how much loves them? Sort out his affairs in this world and maybe even contemplate his affairs in the next?

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has he not already done this?
if he needed the 24 hours to make peace with his family i'd give it to him. if everyone knew he was already close to dying anyways and he'd essentially said his goodbyes, i'd give it to the dog.