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#1
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Party 10/20. Good game. Table is somewhat loose, but nothing out of the ordinary; I've been playing fairly well, have a pretty good image as far as I can tell.
UTG folds and I raise black QJo next to act. This may or not be a mistake the way the game was playing out, but I think it's close at least. A loose passive player next to me coldcalls, and in the seat after him, a 20/15/3 TAG who I think is a bit overaggressive and a mediocre handreader, coldcalls on the Button. SB coolcalls, BB folds, and we have ourselves a family pot. Whoops. The flop is K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I look at the 4-handed pot and the fact that Button coldcalled and the fact that I really don't know where I am and decide to check. This may be a mistake, as this is a decent flop for representing a decent hand, IMO. But alas, I check. The loose-passive player (who will bet pairs and draws, FWIW), checks, and now Button bets. Hmm. SB folds. I pause for just a moment, and checkraise. Rob |
#2
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this is the problem with QJo in MP.
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#3
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[ QUOTE ]
this is the problem with QJo in MP. [/ QUOTE ] I never fold QJo if it's mucked to me in 6max, so I don't get this. |
#4
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] this is the problem with QJo in MP. [/ QUOTE ] I never fold QJo if it's mucked to me in 6max, so I don't get this. [/ QUOTE ] |
#5
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this is the problem with QJo in MP. [/ QUOTE ] Uh, thanks? QJ is showing a small profit for me raising first-in in MP in 5/10 6max over 50k hands (small sample size beware), and I know a lot of players raise it UTG (I don't). Regardless, I dunno, I thought the flop play was interesting but I'm still not really sure that I like it. I will certainly understand if people post that they hate it, though I'd hope that it gets more than a one-liner approach. Rob |
#6
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As much as I like this play, I don't really think its profitable unless you think the Button can fold hands that he wouldn't 3-bet with. If he would CC you with K-Q or K-Js and he's not letting go, this sucks. Even if he is willing to fold, I don't think he'll fold until he misses the turn too which means that you have to invest another bet at least, and what do you do if he just calls that? I don't think this play is really worth it.
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#7
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i am on the side of the arguements that QJo is not profitable in MP in alot of games. however i could of course be wrong. your hand is the problem that QJo has in MP. seriously though, i have no idea why you mentioned your 50k sample size as backup for why the hand is profitable. i also apologize for posting a one-liner, but i dont see why you are offended by that. i thought my comment was food for thought and a good opener for discussion. i really dont know what to say about the flop play other than its unorthodox. i have nothing that i find important to comment on it so i chose not to. would you have preferred i didnt reply at all?
editted because i misread your reply. |
#8
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Like others, I open with QJo from UTG+1 on in a 6 max game and muck it UTG.
I looked at the PokerRoom.com EV statistics for QJo, and PokerRoom says it's a loser from UTG in a 5 handed 10/20 game, which surprised me. Of course that only means the average player loses money with it. PokerRoom does say it's profitable from every other position. It would be interesting to pool a bunch of 2+2er stats for this hand to get a reasonable sample from good players. |
#9
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[ QUOTE ]
i am on the side of the arguements that QJo is not profitable in MP in alot of games. however i could of course be wrong. your hand is the problem that QJo has in MP. seriously though, i have no idea why you mentioned your 50k sample size as backup for why the hand is profitable. i also apologize for posting a one-liner, but i dont see why you are offended by that. i thought my comment was food for thought and a good opener for discussion. i really dont know what to say about the flop play other than its unorthodox. i have nothing that i find important to comment on it so i chose not to. would you have preferred i didnt reply at all? editted because i misread your reply. [/ QUOTE ] Very cool, thanks for the more detailed response. I thought you were just making a "fold PF cuz QJo sucks" post, which I actually expected a few people to make, just not you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] As far as whether or not raising here was going to be profitable, I'll say that had I known that Button was going to coldcall with everyone else, I wouldn't have raised (he's a 20% VPIP and was folding a ton), but in this situation it backfired. That's part of the risk of raising this hand, and I wouldn't raise it if everyone was loose, but in this situation I stood a pretty good chance of getting it HU or 3-ways with initiative against a loose-passive player, and even OOP, I'm ok with that. My pithy remark was only in response to the suggestion that I thought you were making, which was to fold PF everytime. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Rob |
#10
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[ QUOTE ]
QJ is showing a small profit for me raising first-in in MP in 5/10 6max over 50k hands (small sample size beware) [/ QUOTE ] Even disregarding the sample size issue (which is difficult), this argument is lame. The fact that QJo shows a profit when you average together all situations where you open-raise two off the button does not mean that at this particular table it was a profitably raise in this position. |
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