Hand protection ruling

PokerPrince · #1 04-11-2003, 06:55 AM

Tonight I played in an amazing 20-40 game with a player brand new to poker on my right. He usually plays extremely high limit baccarat and blackjack so the money in this game means little to him. I think he was just there to gamble it up and have some social fun.

Anyways, this player would constantly hold his cards out in front of him not only preflop, but postflop as well. I, and the player to his direct right could clearly see his cards, which was amazingly profitable for both of us.

I noticed the dealer giving him concerned looks during the first few rounds of play and I tried my best to not blatantly stare at his hand. The dealer finally comes out and says, "Sir, you're going to have to protect your hand so the players can't see what you have. If these players beside you can see what you have, it's not fair to the others across the table. If you keep carelessly looking at your cards, I'm going to expose your hand." Man was I surly. What the hell does this dealer care!? Is it the dealer's job to assist in the protection of the player's hand? I think it should be totally at the player's discretion. I whispered to the dealer, "You just cost yourself a lot of tokes pal."

PokerPrince

Ralle · #2 04-11-2003, 10:00 AM

Usually in poker, if someone makes mistakes, it's up to anybody who can, to take advantage of it. You might e.g. take advantage of a maniac sitting to your left by check-raising with your great hands, thereby trapping the whole field. I don't think the dealer would tell the maniac not to bet so much.

On the other hand, there could be suspicions of collusion if someone shows his cards to his neighbors. That's obviously not the case here, but I'm speaking about the general case. Anyway the other players wouldn't know if there were collusion going on or not. In the game I play, if someone shows another player his cards after the showdown, he is forced to show his cards to the entire table.

bernie · #3 04-11-2003, 10:04 AM

i think the dealer was right. he was protecting the game and the other players. next it should be ok to speak in a foreign language huh? i mean, what does the dealer care...

let's look at this from a different angle. say your buddy is playing with you. and he's on youre right. he's exposing his cards to you the whole time. could be a case for collusion couldnt it? which IS unfair to the other players at the table. whether it's intended or not.

now, what if you were a player across the table from this guy and you couldnt see the guys exposed cards. would you then tell the dealer how he cost himself alot of tokes, or would you say nice job.

the guy is still a fish, you have position on him. the prime position at that. you should of just enjoyed it while you could.

glad im not a dealer. thankless job.

b

Ulysses · #4 04-11-2003, 01:38 PM

PokerPrince,

I think you are way off base here.

If I were another player at the table, I would tip this dealer extra to make up for you. I can't believe you are criticizing a dealer for trying to run a fair game.

Now, if the player keeps accidentally turning his cards over and showing them to the whole table, that's a different matter. It is the player's responsibility to protect his own hand and the dealer is not there to help any specific player. However, in this situation, this player is putting all of the other players except his two neighbors at a disadvantage. I admire the dealer for trying to keep the game fair for the rest of the table.

CrackerZack · #5 04-11-2003, 01:53 PM

agreed

Big Al · #6 04-11-2003, 05:59 PM

I agree, you are way off base here Pokerprick, I mean Prince. The dealer obviously saw you and another guy were picking off his cards. He gave you a chance to say something and you didnt, so he spoke up. What you should have done, and what the ethical thing to do is, to tell the player one time that you can see his cards. If he continutes to expose them, then he is fair game. To not say anything though, opens you up to have the dealer say something. One of his responsibilties is to maintain the integrity of the game. You are dead wrong.

PokerPrince · #7 04-11-2003, 08:18 PM

I don't care about ethics, I care about money Big Ass, I mean Al. Anyone who would speak up about how they can see his hole cards are basically saying, "Hey dealer, I don't want to make extra money off this extreme advantage, can you tell this guy to stop making me money?".

I bet most of you guys are bent out of shape because of my tokes comment. Well deal with it. First off, the dealers at this casino don't make their own tips, they pool them with the others. Secondly, I don't care about the dealers income, I care about mine. I'm there to play for rent and food.

There is also a board of rules at the front of the room which states the rules. One such rule states, "All players are to protect their hands at their own discretion." Still the dealers job to protect that player and others? I think not. If any of those other players had any gray matter whatsoever, they would have been fighting for the seat to his right when it opened up. It stayed open for 2 hours after the lady left.

PokerPrince

Ulysses · #8 04-11-2003, 08:35 PM

I don't care about ethics
I do care about ethics.

I bet most of you guys are bent out of shape because of my tokes comment.
I don't care how much you do or don't tip the dealer.

I'm there to play for rent and food.
I'm not there to play for rent and food.

Still the dealers job to protect that player and others? I think not.
I do think it is the dealer's job to run a fair game.

bernie · #9 04-11-2003, 08:41 PM

he may be on a bad losing streak and the rent is due. but he's also hungry. haha

on top of that, he wouldnt mind giving another player this advantage over him if he was on the other side of the table. after all, fair is fair. and game integrity is for suckers.

b

PokerPrince · #10 04-11-2003, 09:14 PM

Angry? Nah. I truly wish I had your ethics/morals though. I've never been one to "do the right thing" and help out another player. I just think the game is like a war for the chips. If you are exposing your hand you have a weakness in your battle plan that others should be able to take advantage of it. I didn't notice any of the other players mentioning it whatsoever. If another player across the table felt it was a tactical disadvantage to him, he should have said something. I would have no problem with this. But no one was paying attention. No one cared.

PokerPrince