limped aces UTG top set

[mgsimpleton]

Hi guys. Here's a hand which demonstrates why I hate money. So if anyone asks why I didn't ever try to build the pot (on the flop, for instance) just remind yourselves that I hate money. I also love action, however.

I also hate the converter so I'm going to do it manually... this is PP 10/20 NL full ring.

Hero (4k)
Villain (3600)

Hero is UTG with (A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])

Hero limps, two other people limp, blinds complete.

Flop (100): A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checked around.

Turn (100): 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero bets 80, Villain raises to 250, Hero calls 170.

River (600): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks.

Comments? Thoughts and justifications for my line and results to follow.

[Ulysses]

Bet pot on river.

[mgsimpleton]

can you give reasoning, please?

edit: you know, i'll jsut include my reasoning here to generate discussion on the pros and cons of my thinking. i was thinking that i have ridiculously underrepresented my hand.

on the turn, i diddn't want to reraise in case he had the straight. but anyway when i check that river, either he has a straight, which will bet for value, or he has trips (67) which will likely bet for value, a fh which will bet for value, or a missed draw. the other possible holdings are a counterfeit aces up or any weak ace which probably aren't calling a large bet on the river anyway. So i thought given his range and how hard it is to put me on a monster the way it played out, a check raise was in order. but given weak aces/aces up is a weak lead on the river a better line? do the other hands i mentioned HAVE to raise a weak lead?

[VanVeen]

I have nothing constructive to say about preflop -> turn. You hate money. That's cool. As for the river, I dick around for awhile then raise pot thinking:

i) It gives him a chance to fire a second barrel with missed spade draws;

ii) He'll bet as much as he'll call with a straight (and trips) and will occasionally payoff a check-raise. He will never raise with a straight.

iii) He'll always bet a full house and will always payoff a check-raise. It may be more difficult to stack worse fhs by check-raising than it would have been had you led and 3bet (most players will foolishly autoraise here with 65 or even 44), however.

Those times he's holding a counterfeited two pair you're missing value by not leading since he'll occasionally payoff, but I think he has that relatively infrequently given the action (bets flop a decent % of the time w/A5 and always w/a4, let's say). I can be persuaded that leading pot is a better play if we're playing a certain (not uncommon) type of opponent, but I think c/r is best vs. random.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
most players will foolishly autoraise here with 65 or even 44

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm a fool. Impossible to put hero on a boat here.

[VanVeen]

I raise whenever I think I have the best hand, too. Because I'm a monkey.

And I don't know what kind of fish you're playing with, but against most players at 1k or 2knl they will not raise a river lead (even a weak one) 100% of the time with a straight or small full house while they WILL bet just as much as they'll call 100% of the time and will consider calling a check-raise ("BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PUT HERO ON A BOAT").

Successfully 3betting and getting called seems unlikely vs. non-idiots. Raising this river w/44 is just bad unless villain thinks Hero sucks. Raising 65 is less bad but still ungood vs. nonfish (ignoring all 'meta-game' considerations).

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising this river w/44 is just bad unless villain thinks Hero sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

If hero bets the full pot, I agree. If he bets varying degrees less than the pot, I think that a raise/fold to a 3 bet is a viable play. Hero could call a raise with decent A, the straight, or trips.

All of this, though, depends a lot on table image of both players. I play a pretty LAG game, and thus, get lots of calls by shitty hands, but this may just be the games I play ($600 NL on Empire).

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that a raise/fold to a 3 bet is a viable play

[/ QUOTE ]

However, I also think that MANY opponents will NOT fold to the 3 bet, and many will even push.

[thabadguy]

Checking flop is alright, if you're going for a check raise.
I dont really like check calling here(limped pot, 2 spades), although i would prefer leading that flop, an ace is calling, prolly raising.
Turn is fine. I dont like 3betting, because he might have straight or he might muck something like Aces up.
River I bet pot, you might get raised by a 6 or the straight, which makes it easier getting it in. The check on the river, which does allow weaker hands to bet into you, makes it a little difficult to get good value from good 2nd best hands, and since you say you think he has the straight, lead into him and let him raise ya.

[mgsimpleton]

if i bet full pot, i don't think trips or a straight are raising. hell i don't know if trips is even calling.